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JoanneB2 (Florida)
Posts: 25
Posted:
A homeowner new to the association discovered after he purchased his home that his fence encroached on the association's property by 5 feet. He was told about it when welcomed into the community by a board member who since resigned. The previous owner had put up the fence but was never notified about the 5 foot encroachment. The new owner wants to know, if the previous owner put up the fence and it was allowed to stand for a number of years, would the property pass to him via "common domain".

JoAnne
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
I've always heard this described as "acquisition of title by adverse possession." This is probably covered by state law, but generally a person may acquire title to all or part of another person's property by openly occupying it or, as in this case, fencing it off.

If there is a state law to cover this, it will likely specify how many years this has to occur, whether the current owner assumes the previous owner's claim, and what property cannot be acquired.

Your association should consult with an attorney to ensure that it does not lose title to this slice of property.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
typically adverse possession can be forestalled by an occasional letter to the person attempting the gain stating "we realize that your fence encroaches upon our rightfully titled land by five feet, and are, at this time, not wishing to pursue any legal actions requiring you to change that. However, we retain all rights to the land, regardless of our lack of legal action at this time."

basically, a simple 'i see what you are doing' is sufficient. they can only adverse possess if you don't notice/mention it.
JoanneB2 (Florida)
Posts: 25
Posted:
The owner and the association are aware of the encroachment. This association has had problems in the past granting exceptions to the deed restrictions and was sued by a homeowner earlier this year for same. At an annual meeting this past evening a couple members of the board made remarks regarding the possibility of the homeowner getting title to the property by mere fact that the fence has been there a number of years. However, that sounded a little like getting ready to grant another exception. A review of the warranty deed and the legal description of what was conveyed shows only the land as platted and does not include the extra 5 feet. The property was previously quit claim deeded to the wife by the husband in a divorce and that document clearly states there was no survey done at that time. I do plan to go to the city and see if there was a permit to install the fence originally. Then I will know if it was the fence company that didn't follow the markers during installation. The new owner may have recourse against the previous owner or the fence company but the association does not have the power or authority to give away a piece of common area. I also intend to contact the attorney for the association.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 10/09/2012 9:37 PM
typically adverse possession can be forestalled by an occasional letter to the person attempting the gain stating "we realize that your fence encroaches upon our rightfully titled land by five feet, and are, at this time, not wishing to pursue any legal actions requiring you to change that. However, we retain all rights to the land, regardless of our lack of legal action at this time."

basically, a simple 'i see what you are doing' is sufficient. they can only adverse possess if you don't notice/mention it.

Yes, a letter stating that your association owns the land, that the association is aware that the homeowner has encroached on the association's property by building the fence and, a demand that the homeowner remove the fence ought to be sufficient to prevent the homeowner from acquiring the property.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoanneB2 on 10/09/2012 11:22 PM

. . . but the association does not have the power or authority to give away a piece of common area.

That may be true, but the courts do have that power.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:

Acknowledge the encroachment and permit the fence to stand with the acknowledgement the HOA owns that five-foot strip - by virtue of its tiny footprint would lead one to conclude this is a logistical mistake. This would eliminate adverse possession. This isn't worth the battle for the HOA, especially when the HOA gave the previous homeowner a complete break on the fence installation.

Sticking a new home owner with a total fence removal bill is arbitrary, passive-aggressive and a complete waste of other owners' dues payment to hire a lawyer to write a letter.
JoanneB2 (Florida)
Posts: 25
Posted:
The fence encroachment "fix" would require one side being moved back to the legal lot line. Several members of the board have already volunteered to help do this when the new homeowner decides he is ready. The association has no intention of leaving the encroachment stand because it will only cause other problems within the association further down the line.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I'm confused about the selective enforcement on this issue but it's nice that this can be handled using volunteers.
JoanneB2 (Florida)
Posts: 25
Posted:
This association is known for its selective enforcement of its deed restrictions and community standards. However, there's a newly elected board that wants to change the direction of the community and start enforcing on a consistent basis and that starts with requiring the homeowner move his fence. It appears the homeowner is looking for someone to "blame" because this issue wasn't caught prior to his buying the house. Another member of the board and I will be checking out when the fence was originally put up and the fence company because either the previous owner or the fence company would be responsible for the correct placement of the fence.

This has been an interesting discussion.

JerryO1 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Another angle that I have not heard mentioned is even if the association decides to let the fense stay and not do anything with the 5' of property if the homeowner or their gueses are on that 5 feet and get hurt they may have a case to come after the association for liability because it is still your property and did nothing to secure it or give it to the homeowner.

Just a thought.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JerryO1 on 10/11/2012 5:57 AM
Another angle that I have not heard mentioned is even if the association decides to let the fense stay and not do anything with the 5' of property if the homeowner or their gueses are on that 5 feet and get hurt they may have a case to come after the association for liability because it is still your property and did nothing to secure it or give it to the homeowner.

Just a thought.

So, if I own a piece of property that you take control of by fencing me out and then you invite your guests to use the property that you now control but do not own, I am liable if guests that I did not invite are injured on the property that you have taken from me? Seems like quite a stretch.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/11/2012 10:18 AM
Posted By JerryO1 on 10/11/2012 5:57 AM
Another angle that I have not heard mentioned is even if the association decides to let the fense stay and not do anything with the 5' of property if the homeowner or their gueses are on that 5 feet and get hurt they may have a case to come after the association for liability because it is still your property and did nothing to secure it or give it to the homeowner.

Just a thought.


So, if I own a piece of property that you take control of by fencing me out and then you invite your guests to use the property that you now control but do not own, I am liable if guests that I did not invite are injured on the property that you have taken from me? Seems like quite a stretch.


I agree. That is quite a reach.
BB7 (Missouri)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Don't know if I understood our attorney correctly but she stated "There is no such thing as adverse possession"
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BB7 on 10/11/2012 1:24 PM
Don't know if I understood our attorney correctly but she stated "There is no such thing as adverse possession"

If your attorney stated that, she should go back to basic law 101. Adverse possession is a well defined, common legal term and even has laws in all 50 states describing the process.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
BB&

I copied this:

Adverse possession is a principle of real estate law whereby somebody who possesses the land of another for an extended period of time may be able to claim legal title to that land. The exact elements of an adverse possession claim may be different in each state.

To prove adverse possession under a typical definition, the person claiming ownership through adverse possession must show that its possession is actual, open, notorious, exclusive, hostile, under cover of claim or right, and continuous and uninterrupted for the statutory period. These terms have special legal meanings as legal "terms of art", meaning that their definition for purposes of adverse possession law may be different from a definition you would find in a standard dictionary.

Please note that real estate laws can vary significantly between jurisdictions. Adverse possession is now usually governed by statute, and the law, definitions of terms, and the applicable statute of limitations can vary significantly between jurisdictions.


I am not "playing" lawyer nor am I a lawyer.

In the case being discussed, had the HOA never said anything about the fence being on the common property and the fence owner "took care" of the property (this does play a role) then theoritically the fence owner could go after adverse possesion claiming as the the HOA never said anything then all the land upto the fence should be his.

I did see a case once where a person fenced his property in and on one side his fence was 10 feet short of the property line. He never maintained the part over the fence but his ajoining neighbor did. His neighbor was going after the propery left unintended under adverse possession. I do not know the outcome.

I know of another case (within the last 3 months) where a person bought a home/lot that backed upto a golf course. They had some backyard landscaping/remodeling done and ended up "taking" about 5 foot of the golf course. When the course found out they sent a letter saying we know it but at this time we do not wish to persue the issue. They felt the letter covered them for any future action.

All in all I think the OP's HOA might be overly concerned and all they have to do is send a letter recognizing the fence is in the wrong place and they reserve the right to take action when and if they want to. I think this protects them and neither the owner nor the HOA has to do anything more unless the HOA really needs/wants the land back. It seems to me some want to make an example of the issue and are persuing it when they do not have to.

Hope this helps.

BB7 (Missouri)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Something else that came up was if the past owner allowed someone/neighbor to use the property and nothing is in writing or recorded the agreement does not apply to the current owner.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Joanne,

I wouldn't fight this new property owner on this fencing and would focus the HOA board on moving forward, acknowledging the encroachment and possibly having it filed at the courthouse (which is common). Otherwise, you'll be stuck in the past in trying to unwind all the selective enforcement. Get a fresh start. This new owner is not and was not complicit in the fence placement.

Fence encroachments are common in HOA communities. It's a subjective call.
JC7
Posts: 31
Posted:
BrianB I like that approach where the encroachment is 5' or less. In the past our HOA has issued license agreements.

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