💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BridgettB1 (New Mexico)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Hello Everyone! I happy to find this forum because I need advice.

Here is the story:

I am the President of a very small condominium complex, we have two buildings with 4 units in each. The buildings were originally apartments so the units are not metered separately. We receive one utility bill for each building. We have two residents, mother and daughter oddly enough, who are not paying their HOA fees at all. They stopped paying in January 2012. We already have a lien against one of the units and are going to be placing a lien against the other.

My question is: Can the 3 other units in each building who are footing the bill for the delinquents utilities take them to small claims court and recoup their money?

Aside from placing a lien against each what can we do to collect? Our HOA is in very dangerous financial shape. We are going to be forced to raise the HOA fees on good residents to cover the cost of the delinquents. We have written letters, notices til we are blue in the face encouraging them to pay. They simply won't.

Can we take them to small claims court and start garnering their wages? This is something I am looking into now.

Sorry for the rambling of this first post. I am sure you sense my frustration.

Thank you so much for any advice you can give!

Bridgett
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Small claims court is a bad idea. Doesn't do much for you. Does not guarantee any money. Just get a judgement against them. Which is the same as a lien but a lien doesn't allow one to sell without paying what they owe. I think people assume going to court gets you money. It just doesn't. It gets you a judgement up to the date of filing and can go on for years unpaid. It has to be renewed after about 7 years IF someone remembers it's there. Which means they could have sold and moved out by then never paying a dime. A lien is much stronger legal instrument and it accumulates and adds legal fees on filing. It is slower but it is stronger in the long run.


Former HOA President
BridgettB1 (New Mexico)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Thank you for your prompt reply. This is what I was afraid of. Thank you!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063
Posted:
Won't solve your immediate issue but can minimize overall expenses if you consider going through the expense of installing individual water meters. Over time the initial cost will be recovered.

BridgettB1 (New Mexico)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Tim, it isn't just water meters, it is gas and electric too.
BridgettB1 (New Mexico)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Tim, it isn't just water meters, it is gas and electric too.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Do you have parking lots or driveways that are common areas? Check your Docs - Some COA docs have a clause that says that their voting, parking and other privileges may be suspended if they are over 60 days in arrears. It's not uncommon to see this in the docs. You're not restricting access to the property(They can load/unload etc.),but not park there in the common area spaces. If the provision is in their docs, send them a letter that advises them that their parking privileges have been suspended. Then if they still don't comply, have an impound tow company remove the vehicle from the common areas. Sounds cold, but it's a business and you're about to go out of business.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 10/04/2012 10:02 AM
Then if they still don't comply, have an impound tow company remove the vehicle from the common areas. Sounds cold, but it's a business and you're about to go out of business.

Make sure you are in compliance with local towing ordinances prior to having the vehicle towed.
BridgettB1 (New Mexico)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Wow, I will look for that. Thanks!
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
On the electric issue, there is probably a master circuit breaker panel that feeds each building. You could identify the breakers feeding those units not paying and shut those breakers off, then put a lock on the panel door. The water system may also have a set of valves feeding the same units which could be closed and locked, possibly the same for gas. That might possibly get their attention.

Paul T
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Can only stop services if that is in the rules to do so. So tread lighly there. I would make sure to send them notices a lien is on the property every month or when dues are due. Let them know the amount it is accumulating plus legal fees/mailing costs.

If they threaten to sue then let them. Cheaper to counter sue than sue. Plus countersue for amount owed. Sending notices to colect money professionally is NOT harrassment.

Former HOA President
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/04/2012 12:16 PM
Can only stop services if that is in the rules to do so. So tread lighly there. I would make sure to send them notices a lien is on the property every month or when dues are due. Let them know the amount it is accumulating plus legal fees/mailing costs.

If they threaten to sue then let them. Cheaper to counter sue than sue. Plus countersue for amount owed. Sending notices to colect money professionally is NOT harrassment.

Melissa,

It appears that the HOA is the primary utility customer and would have the ability to suspend service for non-payment? Totally agree that proper notification and documentation
is done with a reasonable time frame for payment before suspending service.

Paul T
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bridgett

You have 8 units with 2 not paying dues. This is 25% default rate when most associations will have start to have financial trouble at about a 10-15% default rate.

Where I you, I would write a letter to each unit owner with a financial outline of what is happening and show how the association is being hurt. I would not mention the two by name but I would show how our association is being financially hurt by non-payers.

I would then call a general meeting to discuss the revenue short coming issue. With only 8 units you might get all to attend, except the two non-payers. Open it up for discussion. If nothing else prepare the others that in the short term they may have to cover the losses.

There might be ways for folks to bring pressure on the non-payers. Now while you did not mention the two non-payers by name, it might well be possible for those at the meeting to "figure out" who they are. Peer pressure, public shaming can be quite persuasive. Let those chips fall where they will.

Also consider turning it over to a debt collection/law firm. Though you may pay a price for their service, they can be quite effective. We reduced are non-payers by about 50% once we turned the law firm loose on them.

Hope this helps.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I like Paul's idea about blocking services but this could get technically tricky as to how and very, very tricky about your legal right to stop utilities. Stop amenities, cable, etc. usually not an issue. Utilities could be a much different issue. I would first ask the utilty company about your rights to and how to do so.

Hope this helps.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I like Paul's idea about blocking services but this could get technically tricky as to how and very, very tricky about your legal right to stop utilities. Stop amenities, cable, etc. usually not an issue. Utilities could be a much different issue. I would first ask the utilty company about your rights to and how to do so.

Hope this helps.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/04/2012 2:01 PM
I like Paul's idea about blocking services but this could get technically tricky as to how and very, very tricky about your legal right to stop utilities. Stop amenities, cable, etc. usually not an issue. Utilities could be a much different issue. I would first ask the utility company about your rights to and how to do so.

Hope this helps.


John,

Right, it definitely wouldn't hurt to check, costs nothing. My guess is that if the Utilities bulk bill the HOA, the HOA is just providing "their" power, gas, & water to their "guests", being the unit occupants, and collecting from them, if they pay. Probably if the occupants were notified of pending suspension of the utilities they would pay up?

Paul T
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Paul:
Just retain a good debt collection firm/attorney. If your governing documents say that the homeowner will pay all costs of collection, then there are firms/attorneys that will work for nothing until they collect and then they get their fees from the debtor. This should work very well for a small association.
Jeanne
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeanneK3 on 10/04/2012 5:22 PM
Paul:
Just retain a good debt collection firm/attorney. If your governing documents say that the homeowner will pay all costs of collection, then there are firms/attorneys that will work for nothing until they collect and then they get their fees from the debtor. This should work very well for a small association.
Jeanne

Jeanne,

Good thought, much easier. Our Committee recommended this to our Board for unpaid fines and I thought they, the Board, all were about to go into cardiac arrest: " oh my god, how cruel, how restrictive, how insentisive, on & on". Bunch of rich bleeding hearts.

Paul T
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:

Simply stop paying the electric bill. They will shut it off. You should see a response.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
In small claims court, the courts issue the judgment, but don't do the collection. That task is left up to the judgment creditor.

Most courts do some sort of Debtor's Exam, a hearing at which the judgment debtor must appear to answer questions about their assets, bank accounts, job, anything which can be garnished, attached, or had a lien placed on it for the purpose of collecting and satisfying the debt.

If the judgment debtor fails to appear for the court-ordered hearing, some judges will issue a bench warrant for failure to appear (in the amount of the debt). That can be a handy collection tool, especially when the person can be arrested at that point (not for failing to pay the debt, but for failing to appear ONLY).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Shutting off the utilities would be prohibited in landlord-tenant situations. This case, however, is not a landlord-tenant dispute but a case of an owner consuming services that he has not paid for. Even in a landlord-tenant dispute, if the tenant is responsible for paying his own electricity and fails to pay, the utility company can shut his services off.

Ideally, you should get a lawyer's opinion. But if it were me, I'd turn off their utilities in a heartbeat and leave them off until they pay up or get a court order. They will quickly find that paying up costs far less than hiring an attorney.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/04/2012 8:47 PM
Shutting off the utilities would be prohibited in landlord-tenant situations. This case, however, is not a landlord-tenant dispute but a case of an owner consuming services that he has not paid for. Even in a landlord-tenant dispute, if the tenant is responsible for paying his own electricity and fails to pay, the utility company can shut his services off.

Ideally, you should get a lawyer's opinion. But if it were me, I'd turn off their utilities in a heartbeat and leave them off until they pay up or get a court order. They will quickly find that paying up costs far less than hiring an attorney.


Right, unfortunately you need an attorney if you think you are going to sneeze. My guess is that if you send them a notice of suspending utilities they will pay. If not, the collection agency may be the easiest next step if you decide not to pull the plug.

Steve's suggestion would shut off power for everybody, not just the non-payers as everybody is served through a common meter, if I am reading it correctly?

Paul T
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
But if it were me, I'd turn off their utilities in a heartbeat and leave them off until they pay up or get a court order.


Might not be technically possible.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Although, you could always hire an electrician to disconnect them. And yes, wait for a court order or payment from the deadbeats.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/05/2012 7:39 AM
Although, you could always hire an electrician to disconnect them. And yes, wait for a court order or payment from the deadbeats.

Circuit breaker panels are generally labled. "One", seeming to have problems in their own unit, could "accidentially" throw the "wrong" breakers. "Shazam", the non-payers have no power, might get their attention? Of course, the "accident" could be easily restored, maybe in two or three hours, not long enough for the food in their freezer to thaw. "Accidents" can happen, sorry about that.

Paul T
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Talk to the utility company. They may have options. It is their property after all. Your just paying to use it...

Former HOA President
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Not that it matters a whole lot but in our area once the electricity leaves the meter it is the property owner's responsibility to distribute it throught the building. I think the only "property" is the meter, not the electricity, kind of likr buying gas for your car.

Paul T
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
This is just an opinion but maybe 'it is' time to have each unit/owner pay for an elcetric and gas meter since those are major expenses. Water is minimal but that can follow. Get an estimate of the approximate cost from your gas/electric provider.
Take a vote at your next meeting on this issue. Each unit paying for their own utilities is better that paying for your own plus one-half of some negligent neighbors. The HOA fees would drop accordingly.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne has the best idea. Investigate going with seperate, direct billing to individual units.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here