Petition for special meeting

Started by ThomasD2 • 19 replies • 2407 views

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ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

I've written here about my many problems with my southern California HOA. 22 units, I am not on the board. I turned in a petition signed by 4 members demanding a meeting on a specific maintenance issue. I was told "this was covered in the last meeting and we have another meeting coming up in 2 weeks." I responded thank you, but that my understanding was that according to the law the board had twenty days to schedule and announce the meeting, regardless of other meetings. Is that true?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Ok. Isn't the meeting in two weeks within the 20 days?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Thomas,

According to corporation code, the Board has 20 days to set the date of the meeting which could be as far as 90 days out.

Paste the following link into your browser to answer your questions,
http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainMenu/MainIndex/Meetingsspecial/tabid/586/Default.aspx#axzz284ZPdDlq

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

The meeting in two weeks is a general, yearly HOA meeting. I turned in a petition for a meeitng on a specific maintenance topic. It was signed by 4 HOA members.

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 10/01/2012 1:14 PM
Thomas,

According to corporation code, the Board has 20 days to set the date of the meeting which could be as far as 90 days out.

Paste the following link into your browser to answer your questions,
http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainMenu/MainIndex/Meetingsspecial/tabid/586/Default.aspx#axzz284ZPdDlq

Thanks for citation, I interpret this to mean that they have no choice but to schedule the meeting.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Thomas

You're correct. They must schedule a meeting within 20 days, doesn't mean the meeting is in 20 days. They could string out to 90 days. Only what was addressed on the petition can be discussed at the Special Meeting. If you have a quorum requirement in your Bylaws, it must be met before the meeting can go forward. The other option is call an old fashioned Town Hall meeting.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

If the issue is addressed at the Annual Meeting, I would say you met your goal. If not then if they don't call a SM, you can issue notice of it.

Failure to Give Notice. If the board fails to give notice of the meeting, the Corporations Code provides that "the persons entitled to call the meeting may give the notice . . . after notice to the corporation giving it an opportunity to be heard." Corp. Code §7511(c). Although the Corporations Code provides that members can give notice of a meeting date, it does not give them the right to issue ballots, select an inspector of elections, or adopt amendments. Civil Code 1363.03, which governs the election process, specifically provides that the association alone is charged with these tasks:

BTW Did you ever decide who the CC&R's said was responsible to pay for the window repairs?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I do believe that part of an Annual Meeting is throwing the floor open for "general questions". Now if it is an Annual Meeting, would not one have more owners in attendance then in a "Special Called Meeting"?

If one one asked a specific question on a given subject (say leaky block glass windows) and they have others (say 4 out of 22 owners) ask related questions (as in how would we raise money if we need to replace such windows), etc., does this not open the subject up for discussion, maybe even more discussion then a specific subject called meeting, plus in front of more owners?

Even if the BOD stonewalls, does the fact that more owners are in attendance rally more to one cause if ones casue is valid?

Does one not attract more files with honey the vinegar?

Are there more ways then one to skin a cat?

I could be wrong.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

The problem with addressing the item at an Annual Meeting is what if not enough owners show up or vote and quorum is not achieved, then no action can be taken. If quorum is not achieved, I am sure, if the Board is willing, everyone in attendance can have a fireside chat and maybe the Board will decide to agendize the item(s) at their next Board meeting.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Richard

You are correct, but the OP said there were 22 units and 4 signed his request for a special meeting. Seems to me that he might be able to get enough to attend the Annual Meeting to obtain a quorum. Afterall, there are only 22 of them to corral.

At most Anuual Meetings, quorum or not, the BOD will generally (my experience) throw the floor open for a general Q and A session, even if they do not answer. If they do not open it for discvussion then maybe it is more ammunition for the OP to use.

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/01/2012 3:53 PM
I do believe that part of an Annual Meeting is throwing the floor open for "general questions". Now if it is an Annual Meeting, would not one have more owners in attendance then in a "Special Called Meeting"?

If one one asked a specific question on a given subject (say leaky block glass windows) and they have others (say 4 out of 22 owners) ask related questions (as in how would we raise money if we need to replace such windows), etc., does this not open the subject up for discussion, maybe even more discussion then a specific subject called meeting, plus in front of more owners?

Even if the BOD stonewalls, does the fact that more owners are in attendance rally more to one cause if ones casue is valid?

Does one not attract more files with honey the vinegar?

Are there more ways then one to skin a cat?

I could be wrong.

All I know is that the HOA is very important to me and I can't be on the board anymore. The way they do business is beyond belief. This process is one of the ways I can still have a voice. I think the people that signed my petition are likely to attend and I think they are indeed going to speak up in support of it. It will be discussed. Meanwhile I think the people on the board are going to be hurt, angry and feel like I don't appreciate their own hard work. Believe me, having been on the board I know the feeling! In reality HOA's are a twisted business model for home ownership and don't really work. If I own a home and someone blocks my driveway I can call the police, here if someone blocks my driveway I have to write a pleading letter to the board. It's ridiculous.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Why does everyone try to over-complicate relatively simple matters??? 22 homes minus the 4 members that signed the request for the SM = 18 minus the (I'm guessing) 3 board members = 15. That's 15 homes or 3.75 homes each of the four need to contact to stress the importance of attending the annual meeting. I know it may seem a daunting task but really its not like you have to rally 150 homes or 1500, just 15.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 10/01/2012 10:03 PM
Why does everyone try to over-complicate relatively simple matters??? 22 homes minus the 4 members that signed the request for the SM = 18 minus the (I'm guessing) 3 board members = 15. That's 15 homes or 3.75 homes each of the four need to contact to stress the importance of attending the annual meeting. I know it may seem a daunting task but really its not like you have to rally 150 homes or 1500, just 15.

Well for about 1/3 of the residents they have absolutely no interest in ever attending a meeting in engaging in HOA matters. At any rate I think there will be a quorum and I think the matter will be discussed. But whether it ultimately matters at all is another thing entirely. About 99.9% of my neighbors don't want to think, they just want a place to park their 4 or 5 extra cars.

HaykP (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

We had a lot of issues with our BOD in CA (basically they've been violating everything that is possible to violate - CC&R, By-Laws, Davis-Stirling). We went through recall process (got petition signed and served it). They didn't respond within 20 days, so we set the date ourselve. They ignored it again. Only after we sent out ballots they finally "came alive" and started to black mail everyone who was involved. This was the first time in 2 years anyone got any type of mail from BOD (within 2 years there was nothing, no reports, no financials nothing at all). Their letters didn't address any of our concerns, but did a lot of personal blackmailing.

Anyway, to keep story short...
We did a lot of work and got 40% of members participating (about 11 or so mailed out balots and rest came to meeting). This wasn't enough to get a quorume, though nobody ever saw this many homeowners to come up. During that meeting we had a lot of arguments and discussions and BOD President promised to hold an annual meeting in about 2 month. Guess what? No meeting was held and things continued the same way...

Interesting enough there is almost nothing one can do about it. So we started to sue the board for all the violation, but they really don't care. It is my understanding that it is easier for them to $500 per violation than fixing anything, because apparently there is major fraud going on and most likely they are afraid that after we audit the records they might be held accountable.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Hayk

Most Bylaws have a provision that would allow the initial quorum (generally half of the original) to be reduced at a second meeting (adjourned by the members present at meeting). So if you needed 25 at the first meeting, at the second meeting the requirement may be 13. Any ballots turned in at the first meeting are carried over to the second meeting.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/cms/story/detail/constitutional_condo_conundrum/11328/

I wrote an article about basically the same problem. Ours was resolved more or less, but the board never actually addressed our issues and still had secret meetings.

I'd like to bring this issue greater attention. You can contact me via the Pasadena Weekly and refer to the article that I've given the URL for.

JJM

HaykP (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Richard,

It is my understanding that that specific rule applies to regular meetings, but in case of Recall Election it is not. You have one shoot to get a quorume or need to ask a judge to remove quorume requirements. But as you know getting to recall election takes about 3 month, then getting judge descrission another 1-2.

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaykP on 10/10/2012 2:40 PM
We had a lot of issues with our BOD in CA (basically they've been violating everything that is possible to violate - CC&R, By-Laws, Davis-Stirling). We went through recall process (got petition signed and served it). They didn't respond within 20 days, so we set the date ourselve. They ignored it again. Only after we sent out ballots they finally "came alive" and started to black mail everyone who was involved. This was the first time in 2 years anyone got any type of mail from BOD (within 2 years there was nothing, no reports, no financials nothing at all). Their letters didn't address any of our concerns, but did a lot of personal blackmailing.

Anyway, to keep story short...
We did a lot of work and got 40% of members participating (about 11 or so mailed out balots and rest came to meeting). This wasn't enough to get a quorume, though nobody ever saw this many homeowners to come up. During that meeting we had a lot of arguments and discussions and BOD President promised to hold an annual meeting in about 2 month. Guess what? No meeting was held and things continued the same way...

Interesting enough there is almost nothing one can do about it. So we started to sue the board for all the violation, but they really don't care. It is my understanding that it is easier for them to $500 per violation than fixing anything, because apparently there is major fraud going on and most likely they are afraid that after we audit the records they might be held accountable.

I turned in the petition I mentioned in this discussion. I was proud I got 3 other HOA members to sign it, out of 22. That's actually pretty good. The board replied that the subject would be covered in a meeting coming up. I reminded them that the law says they can't opt out of scheduling it, and that I had told that to the people who signed . That was the end of the matter. I didn't think they would schedule a meeting, but wanted to make everyone knew I was going to use whatever tools I had to represent my interests. I can't be on the board, the meetings had gone too far into the deep end. But this tool helped me represent my interests, show I am still an active member, and show I had some support. I just can't worry all the time if I am offending them, or worry about suing or whatever for violating the law.

HaykP (California)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Thomas,

As stated in my original post our situation is worse. We don't have complete board, they don't hold any meetings at all etc. So making point makes no point at all. That is why I was asking about legel ways to stop this.

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208

Posted:

Best of luck, that does sound like an especially unfortunate situation

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