AnnieS4 (Florida)
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
If you were voted in to a hoa for vp bod by the homeowners meeting. Can bods and president vote you out by themselves?
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vote out
Started by AnnieS4 • 9 replies • 1277 views
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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Check your documents. According to our documents members vote for Board memebers. The Board members then vote among themselves as to who will be the officers. My personal opinion is that the current Board has a better understanding of who should hold what office then the general membership would have.
At an annual meeting over a year ago, a member moved to have a lady be "Presidnt". We had to tell him that he could move she be on the Board, but the Board appoints the officers. This lady has gotten on the Board twice and resigned twice. In my opinion a vary bad choice for a President. She was a good Board member but when people complained to her she had a very difficult time.
At an annual meeting over a year ago, a member moved to have a lady be "Presidnt". We had to tell him that he could move she be on the Board, but the Board appoints the officers. This lady has gotten on the Board twice and resigned twice. In my opinion a vary bad choice for a President. She was a good Board member but when people complained to her she had a very difficult time.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Annie,
As Bonnie said, this will depend on what is in your Associations governing documents.
One thing to remember is that Directors and Officers are two different positions. Directors are elected by the membership or appointed by the Board (typically to fill vacancies). Officers are usually appointed by the Board. If the Board appointed someone into that position, the Board may remove them from that position.
Typically, the membership elects the Directors and the Board appoints the Officers. When this happens the Board is allowed to remove you from Office but not from being Director unless the governing documents provide that additional authority. Typically, when this authority is provided it is a conditional authority (example: Director does not attend 3 meetings).
It's typical for Associations to be incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation. When this happens, in addition to HOA/COA laws, the corporation must comply with the applicable corporate law. Since corporate laws typically address procedures, it's a good idea to review them when procedures are being questioned:
Per FL 617.0842 Resignation and removal of officers this statute allows Officers of the Association to be removed from Office by the Board.
Per FL 617.0808 Removal of directors Any member of the board of directors may be removed from office with or without cause by:
1. Except as provided in paragraph (i), a majority of all votes of the directors, if the director was elected or appointed by the directors; or
2. A majority of all votes of the members, if the director was elected or appointed by the members.
Hope this helps,
Tim
As Bonnie said, this will depend on what is in your Associations governing documents.
One thing to remember is that Directors and Officers are two different positions. Directors are elected by the membership or appointed by the Board (typically to fill vacancies). Officers are usually appointed by the Board. If the Board appointed someone into that position, the Board may remove them from that position.
Typically, the membership elects the Directors and the Board appoints the Officers. When this happens the Board is allowed to remove you from Office but not from being Director unless the governing documents provide that additional authority. Typically, when this authority is provided it is a conditional authority (example: Director does not attend 3 meetings).
It's typical for Associations to be incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation. When this happens, in addition to HOA/COA laws, the corporation must comply with the applicable corporate law. Since corporate laws typically address procedures, it's a good idea to review them when procedures are being questioned:
Per FL 617.0842 Resignation and removal of officers this statute allows Officers of the Association to be removed from Office by the Board.
Per FL 617.0808 Removal of directors Any member of the board of directors may be removed from office with or without cause by:
1. Except as provided in paragraph (i), a majority of all votes of the directors, if the director was elected or appointed by the directors; or
2. A majority of all votes of the members, if the director was elected or appointed by the members.
Hope this helps,
Tim
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posts: 154
Posted:
Fl SS720 was created to clarify 617 in a number of areas.
Thus 617 no longer provides relief for HOA BODs in this matter.
The power to remove a director from the BOD by the BOD must reside in your assn. documents.
I know this because we wanted to remove a rogue director last year and were not able without a formal recall effort (which can be iniated by ANY member including a current director).
Thus 617 no longer provides relief for HOA BODs in this matter.
The power to remove a director from the BOD by the BOD must reside in your assn. documents.
I know this because we wanted to remove a rogue director last year and were not able without a formal recall effort (which can be iniated by ANY member including a current director).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
To phrase it a bit different.
In most associations owners elect fellow owners to the BOD. The BOD then elects its officers from among themselves. Those elected to the BOD can only be removed by the owners. Some associations do have some conditions (like miss 3 meetings in a row) where a BOD Member is automatically removed.
Some associations do have the owners vote for people on the BOD to fill specific positions like one runs for and gets elected as President.
Generally if an vacancy occurs on the BOD (such as a resignation/death, etc.) the majority of the BOD can select someone to fill the vacancy and term. The person selected does not automatically fill any officer position the prior director was filling. Often the BOD will at the same time have an election among themselves for officers. Also as they appointed/elected someone to the BOD, they can remove that person.
Above is a general, happens in most cases description. It is not the law of the land. Your Bylaws could be quite different.
To the OP. If one was appointed to the BOD by fellow BOD Members, then generally fellow BOD Members can also remove them.
Hope this helps.
In most associations owners elect fellow owners to the BOD. The BOD then elects its officers from among themselves. Those elected to the BOD can only be removed by the owners. Some associations do have some conditions (like miss 3 meetings in a row) where a BOD Member is automatically removed.
Some associations do have the owners vote for people on the BOD to fill specific positions like one runs for and gets elected as President.
Generally if an vacancy occurs on the BOD (such as a resignation/death, etc.) the majority of the BOD can select someone to fill the vacancy and term. The person selected does not automatically fill any officer position the prior director was filling. Often the BOD will at the same time have an election among themselves for officers. Also as they appointed/elected someone to the BOD, they can remove that person.
Above is a general, happens in most cases description. It is not the law of the land. Your Bylaws could be quite different.
To the OP. If one was appointed to the BOD by fellow BOD Members, then generally fellow BOD Members can also remove them.
Hope this helps.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Jay,
I'm not sure what relief 617 provides that is different from 720.
The only thing 720 modified in regard to recalls is to add that the membership may also recall directors appointed by the board (in addition to those elected/appointed by the membership as outlined in 627). If the Association is incorporated as a not for profit corporation 617 would still apply.
Since the info in 720 wasn't relevant to the OP's question as to what authority does the Board have regarding removing board members, I didn't include it.
Is this the relief you are talking about or am I missing what you are trying to point out?
I'm not sure what relief 617 provides that is different from 720.
The only thing 720 modified in regard to recalls is to add that the membership may also recall directors appointed by the board (in addition to those elected/appointed by the membership as outlined in 627). If the Association is incorporated as a not for profit corporation 617 would still apply.
Since the info in 720 wasn't relevant to the OP's question as to what authority does the Board have regarding removing board members, I didn't include it.
Is this the relief you are talking about or am I missing what you are trying to point out?
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posts: 154
Posted:
I am passing on the benefit of my personal experience with a recall in a Fla. HOA.
What is your experience?
There is no current applicable Fl. law granting an HOA BOD authority to remove a director regardless of how he/she came into office. That relief would have to come from the assn. docs.
As explained to us... 720 provides specific language for recalls thus it superceedes jurisdiction not augment it. If it were silent than FLSS for CNFP laws could apply.
What is your experience?
There is no current applicable Fl. law granting an HOA BOD authority to remove a director regardless of how he/she came into office. That relief would have to come from the assn. docs.
As explained to us... 720 provides specific language for recalls thus it superceedes jurisdiction not augment it. If it were silent than FLSS for CNFP laws could apply.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
My experience on this issue is associated with interpreting governmental legalize.
Based on Jay's postings, I went back and reread that entire section of FL 617. This is when I found a single statement I had previously overlooked:
(3) This section does not apply to any corporation that is an association, as defined in s. 720.301, or a corporation regulated under chapter 718 or chapter 719.
Jay,
Thank you for pointing out my error which caused me to read the entire section of 617 (something I apparently failed to do the first time). I apologize if, when asking for clarification, I ruffled any feathers. That was not my intent. I was only trying to learn what I had missed so I could correct my mistake and not make it again in the future.
Annie,
Based on this new information, I would like to amend my previous advice and echo what Jay posted that in Florida, the Board may not remove a director unless there is specific language within the governing documents that allow it. Therefore, it will depend on what your governing documents say.
Sorry for the confusion by referencing FL 617,
Tim
Based on Jay's postings, I went back and reread that entire section of FL 617. This is when I found a single statement I had previously overlooked:
(3) This section does not apply to any corporation that is an association, as defined in s. 720.301, or a corporation regulated under chapter 718 or chapter 719.
Jay,
Thank you for pointing out my error which caused me to read the entire section of 617 (something I apparently failed to do the first time). I apologize if, when asking for clarification, I ruffled any feathers. That was not my intent. I was only trying to learn what I had missed so I could correct my mistake and not make it again in the future.
Annie,
Based on this new information, I would like to amend my previous advice and echo what Jay posted that in Florida, the Board may not remove a director unless there is specific language within the governing documents that allow it. Therefore, it will depend on what your governing documents say.
Sorry for the confusion by referencing FL 617,
Tim
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posts: 154
Posted:
Ok Tim.
It's a Pet peeve of mine when carpetbaggers incorrectly cite Florida HOA proceedures and laws with which they have no experience in.
Best stick to what you know rather than read.
JP.
It's a Pet peeve of mine when carpetbaggers incorrectly cite Florida HOA proceedures and laws with which they have no experience in.
Best stick to what you know rather than read.
JP.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
Hey Jay.
Yea. We too went through a recall.
The only way in Fl. is by member recall which is easy if you know in advance you have majority support.
Just reading on-line info is not a substitute for experiencing it (or a law degree!!!).
Cheers!
Yea. We too went through a recall.
The only way in Fl. is by member recall which is easy if you know in advance you have majority support.
Just reading on-line info is not a substitute for experiencing it (or a law degree!!!).
Cheers!
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