Concerning "commercial vehicles"

Our HOA currently has this rule:

"Spaces are to be used for parking automobiles and passenger trucks only. No commercial
vehicles may be parked in any assigned or visitor spaces."

We recently had one complaint (out of 180 townhouse owners) of an owner having a commercial vehicle parked in her space.

The vehicle being complained about is a company car that contains some company logos on it.

Our compliance person notified the homeowner that she was in violation of the rule pertaining to commercial vehicles.

The homeowner replied that she did not consider her car a commercial vehicle, and that she thought it was clear the intent of the rule was to limit the parking of large vehicles used to haul cargo, dump trucks and the like.

A lot of discussion took place amongst the board, and I can see where she is coming from. The rules do not define commercial vehicle, and the ordinary definition is "a vehicle for carrying goods or (less commonly) passengers". Our state has a specific definition also, and it does not include passenger cars. Some board members believe that any vehicle with advertising on it is a commercial vehicle.

I'm somewhere in the middle. The board lawyer said that we can define commercial vehicle any way we would like. The CCR's give the board the authority to set rules at its discretion - which is fine of course - but I'm not sure if that extends to changing the definition of words in those rules after the fact.

After some further discussion, we voted to change the rule to say "No commercial vehicle will be parked in any assigned or visitor space in the neighborhood on a regular basis. A commercial vehicle is defined as any vehicle that is adorned with advertising and/or transports any products, equipment, and/or people for a business purpose." I voted against that particular wording, however the vote passed. I think "regular basis" mean nothing, and I think to define a commercial vehicle as a vehicle that transports products for a business purpose is a mistake that would include any company car (without logos) that transports products sold by that business. "adorned with advertising" could include nearly any sticker.

The homeowner also mentions that she has been parking this same vehicle in her spot for almost 14 months. The complaining resident has lived in the community for over 15 years - I'm not sure why he chose to make a complaint at this time.

We (the BOD) sent her a letter telling her that she has 30 days to remove the vehicle due to the violation. Her response was the same, that her vehicle is not a commercial vehicle, and that she would like to address the BOD. I have talked with her personally and she is prepared to take this to court if needed. This is a company car supplied by her employer, and she would have to purchase a vehicle if she was not allowed to park it.

Like I said above, I'm somewhere in the middle, leaning to the intent of the rule being as she said, to prohibit large vehicles - not cars with logos.

Comments? Thoughts? Opinions? I'd appreciate any input anyone might have.

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, NC requires commercial plates for what it considers commercial vehicles. And this is the rub, so to speak. The homeowner claims that without further definition, the commercial vehicle mentioned in the rules would be based on the definition from the NC DOT, or simply the ordinary definition.

We have discussed the car cover issue, and the cover with magnets issue. She, tongue in cheek, asked if the magnets she used to cover could say "xxxxxxx homeowners association made me put this sign on my car", or if she could use a glow-in-the-dark pink car cover. As I said, I get her point - she could buy a $300 junker and park it in her space that would be 100 times the eyesore. Sometimes I don't understand why we (the BOD) don't realize that we can also tell the complainer that we don't consider it a violation and leave it at that.

If your COA is typical, the vehicle probably also violates your sign rule.

> The board lawyer said that we can define commercial vehicle any way we would like.

This is the key. Have a discussion, have a vote (which seems to be what you have done). Then move on.

(You may be moving on to a definition of "regular basis.")

Are these spaces deeded to individual owners or are they common area? Do your cc&r's give the board power to restrict parking?

You may be opening a Pandora's Box. Every car parked in your parking area most likely carries some advertising on it. License plate frames advertising a car dealer. A decal or plaque fixed on the trunk lid. Bumper stickers for the local pizza joint. A car used to run an errand for the owner's employer using his own car now falls under the definition of commercial vehicle.

Quah,

Let's see - - according to your BOD an unmarked automobile used by a real estate agent to take clients to look for houses for sale now drives a commercial vehicle. A representative for a pharmaceutical firm that travels to doctor's offices and carries samples of that firm's medicines now drives a commercial vehicle. The same is true for the employee of any company that carries product samples to clients. How about the Avon Lady? Since she carries Avon products in her car for potential customers to try she must also be driving a commercial vehicle. How about the person who sells jewelry at home parties? The Tupperware salesperson? I'm not talking about people who may be visitors to your community, I'm talking about people who may be engaged in these kind of activities and live in your community and therefore park there on a "regular basis."

What a stupid definition!

Thanks for suppling your definition.

I see you exclude bumper stickers, but don't limit how many can be used. Have you had any issues with that? It appears that a homeowner could cover their car in bumper stickers and be in compliance. I also see that you don't mention anything about covering any advertising - is this an option that you allow? Or do you consider the car to still contain the advertising even if it is covered?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to not open that pandora's box. It seems that we are including advertising in the definition because of the eyesore factor. Yet, a car covered in Bondo and rust and unpainted is allowed, but far more of an eyesore. Just trying to understand how to strike a balance here.

I say a typical family car with advertising on it is a commercial vehicle. In one HOA we would not allow them to be parked overnight in one driveway, but as each home had a two car garage one could park it in the garage. We had an issue of two identical mini-vans. One a soccer mom van, the other a limo service with signs all over it. The limo one was ruled commercial. They did not like it but they cleaned out their garage and parked it in there. eend of problem.

Now the OP has a different issue which is they have only outside parking available (I am assuming this?) so I believe they have to approach it a bit different. They cannot approach it as simply as we did.

I think they may have to look at a vehicle as having a combination of things such as size, weight, signage, dressing, licensing, etc. before they claim it as commercial vehicle. It will get tricky. Example: I drive a Ford F150 but neighbor drives same F150 but his has ladders hung off it.

Question to the OP. Do you have any open spaces say a bit out of the way (like down the end of the lot) that could be marked as commercial vehicle parking? At least get them aways away.

To those saying well that state rulings says so and so, keep in mind an association can have tighter restrictions. Typical exmaple is local rules say no fences higher then 8ft and an association can say no fences higher then 6ft.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. I understand that we can still enforce a rule that wasn't enforced in the past. I think the rub here is the homeowner believes she was following the rule all along - using the common definition of commercial vehicle since the rules didn't state any other definition.

You are correct, the homeowner does not own the vehicle. However, she does not own any other vehicles. As I said above, she lives in the building next to me, and has been here for more than 10 years. When she was given the company car to drive, she sold her vehicle. Each homeowner is assigned 2 parking spaces, so space is not an issue.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of the intent of defining commercial vehicles in this way. I think that is the only way to understand how to create a rule.

Are the signs magnetic?

My association has reached several agreements with owners that if they remove the magnetic signs when they park the vehicle, it can be parked within the community.

As others have said, we have also reached arrangements with those who did not have magnetic signs but were willing to purchase magnetic signs the color of their vehicle to cover up the commercial messaging.

Again, not to be argumentative - but it does not read commercial bumper stickers. It says "bears any visible commercial advertising signs, names logos, dealer tags, letterings or initials (not including bumper stickers or similar sized stickers);" - not including bumper stickers, period, no?

Would a "Hello Kitty" sticker be allowed?

I am glad you voted against that horrible definition, thank you for showing some sense. Too bad you were outvoted.

Last time I checked, nearly every vehicle I see has advertising on it.. Toyota on the tailgate, Ford or Dodge, or Chevy on the grill, etc. Does your new rule require owners to remove the words Civic, Corolla, Hyundai, F-150? If not, how do you rule that a big Ford Logo is not advertising?

What about license plate frames? Granted, I offer to leave mine on if the dealer pays me $500 when I buy the car (and they never do, and I always take it off and hand it to them before I leave the lot), but do you require that Hand's Motor Cars or Kiefe and Sons Chevy frames be removed? If I had a KC Chiefs sticker on my window, is that now a commercial vehicle? It is advertising.

It is a wrap of some sort, large magnets could cover the "brand" on the sides and hood. The background of the wrap is not a solid color, more of a design, but not "branded". So yes to both questions, lol.

It is possible that whoever wrote your rule had size in mind? Logos, signs and markings can be somewhat of a negative visual impact but as mentioned above enforcement can get a little tricky. Sounds like your rules are fairly specific and that your Board has made their decision. I don't think the dealer's name on a license plate frame makes it a "vehicle used for business purposes", with the definition of "business" as any activity that generates revenue. Our rules state nothing with dual rear wheels or more than two axles, used for business purposes, may be parked outside overnight. If she has one, how about putting her car in her garage?

Paul T

I think your signage definition is at the base of this issue. Just what constitiutes "commercial"? The back window banner of the university the vehicle's owner's kid attends? The yacht club cling in the side window? The www.xxxxx.com strip across the rear bumper?

Well, yes, as I posted above, we (against my wishes) have voted to implement that far reaching definition of commercial vehicle.

But as I said, I'm in the middle somewhat, and just trying to understand if the homeowner is being reasonable or not.

You bring up a good point about "generate revenue" - but I think that adds to my confusion. Do you mean generate revenue directly, as in, for example, it is used to deliver products the business sells, or simply that it is a "tool" of the business? Or do you mean generate revenue passively, as in it is advertising and creating sales?

Interesting, and makes sense.

Just to clarify - if the car containing advertising was only used to transport the employee to and from an office, it would not be considered a commercial vehicle, correct?

Overcomplicating is my specialty!

You are so right - but somehow in trying to develop a rule that fits those criteria, it seem to inevitably get complicated.

I will admit, as you can probably tell, I am not in agreement with the other members of the board on this entire topic. I might come off sounding like I'm just upset that I am outvoted, but I'm really just trying to apply some logic to these things. And some fairness - and treat people the way that I would want to be treated.

I don't think we are being fair in this at all. First, our rules had no further definition of commercial vehicle, and includes other DOT terms such as "passenger vehicles". So, if you were to read that rule, and see DOT terms such as "passenger vehicle" and "commercial vehicle", I can understand why anyone would consider the definition of those to be what the state has decided. I wasn't around when the rule was written, but it is clear to me that she (the homeowner) is correct - whoever wrote that rule was intending to prevent someone from parking dump trucks, busses, etc., in a parking space.

Second, a ten year resident - who has been a perfect homeowner up to this point - never an issue, never a late due payment, and a previous board member a few years ago - is suddenly faced with having to purchase a new vehicle over the complaint of one homeowner. This after parking the same vehicle for more than a year without issue. Yes, I understand that we can enforce at any point, etc. - but the question is - should we? And do we have anything to enforce?

Third, we (the BOD) decided to clarify the rule (change is more like it) - and to me, that indicates that we agree that the rule was either different or not clear. If the rule is good as it was written, why change it?

Fourth, the new rule is totally ambiguous - and leaves so much room for interpretation and confusion. I don't see how we will be able to enforce it without making further changes - and at some point we start looking like morons.

Fifth, I don't really care one way or the other about banning advertising, etc. - I just don't think any new rule should be applied retroactively to people who acted in good faith a long time ago. There are actually two other homeowners who have been warned about the same violation - though no homeowner complained about their vehicles specifically.

So, overcomplicate - yeah, probably. Maybe it's just more that I hate we are not doing the "right" thing. We have so many more pressing issues to deal with as a board.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion so far - I appreciate the chance to talk this through with other like-minded people.

Just to keep adding fuel... because I always believe that any legislature, having all the words of the English language available to them for free has a responsibility to write clear rules, and their failure to do so (ie, they are lazy) should be pointed out and ridiculed at every opportunity.

Using MikeS1's excellent rule of thumb about a rule, I would say this one doesn't qualify. It is not easy to understand, it isn't easy to enforce. Sounds like it was easy to implement, however.

Last time I checked, the Redskins were a revenue generating company. Advertising for them is no different than advertising for Mary Kay, Revlon, Bob's Wildcat Drillers, or Maury's Heating and Air Conditioning.

Paul, i can't speak for anyone but myself, but... My father drove a business supplied vehicle for years. As an insurance adjuster, he was given a car just for working the claims. I still remember the mileage logbook for it, and if he ever drove it for "personal use", he logged those miles into the book as well. There were no marking on the car at all, except for the normal logos all cars have. The only way you would know it was an insurance adjuster's car was the 30 foot fold up ladder in the trunk, and 3 boxes of case files in the back seat along with the clothes hanger bar across the back seat.

My neighbor currently drives a Ford Ranger that his company provides him for commuting and running company errands. Plain Jane tan truck, no markings at all.

My current plant manager has a big Ford truck, company supplied, as a commuting vehicle, and our previous plant manager had a Dodge CHallenger as his. Our environmental manager has a blue Explorer (no markings) as a business perk as well. So, there are several companies that provide plain old cars/trucks for employees to drive as part of their business and part of their perks.

I am not sure how an HOA could justify banning my boss's truck, because it is owned by a company, and allowing the exact same, identical truck, owned by someone else, because it is owned by an individual (heck, if there's a loan on it, even that truck is owned by a company).

If company/business ownership of a vehicle would make it 'commercial', where do leased vehicles fit? They are owned by a leasing company, correct?

If the vehicle does not have signage/advertisements on it, then in that sense it is not a commercial vehicle. So this carrying company personnel, brochures, sample products, etc. analogy/arguement does not hold water. My former company car (Ford Escape) with no signage, looked no different then anyone elses Ford Escape with no signage. Saying mine was a commercial vehicle is really, really reaching even though it contained business stuff like brochures, samples, etc.

In SC if one has a business license plate, it opens up some business only parking spots even though the vehicle is no different then an identical vehicle with no business license plate. Could one say two identical vehicles are different based solely on the license plate? Well if you are the letter of the law type versus the intent of the law type person, then the license plate alone could make it a commercial vehicle.

We had one HOA member complain that police cars with signage were commercial vehicles, so they must be parked out of sight.

People need to get realistic with their thinking especially if they are in a rules/regulation making position.

We actually have a state law in Arizona that prohibits an association from barring police cars and other first-responder vehicles.

The full text is:

33-1809. Parking; public service and public safety emergency vehicles; definition

A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit a resident from parking a motor vehicle on a street or driveway in the planned community if the vehicle is required to be available at designated periods at the person's residence as a condition of the person's employment and either of the following applies:

1. The resident is employed by a public service corporation that is regulated by the corporation commission, an entity regulated by the federal energy regulatory commission or a municipal utility and the public service corporation or municipal utility is required to prepare for emergency deployments of personnel and equipment for repair or maintenance of natural gas, electrical, telecommunications or water infrastructure, the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty thousand pounds or less and is owned or operated by the public service corporation or municipal utility and the vehicle bears an official emblem or other visible designation of the public service corporation or municipal utility.

2. The resident is employed by a public safety agency, including police or fire service for a federal, state, local or tribal agency or a private fire service provider or an ambulance service provider that is regulated pursuant to title 36, chapter 21.1, and the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand pounds or less and bears an official emblem or other visible designation of that agency.

B. For the purposes of this section, "telecommunications" means the transmission of information of the user's choosing between or among points specified by the user without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received. Telecommunications does not include commercial mobile radio services.

I just love silly rules that are difficult to enforce.

If I use my personal vehicle to deliver product samples, product literature, etc., is not the vehicle being used for business purposes? Yet, from the exterior, my vehicle looks like just any other similar vehicle that is not used for any business purpose other than perhaps getting someone to and from work. There is simply no way to tell by looking at the vehicle that it is being used for business purposes. Only I, my family and a few friends, the IRS (because I claim the business use of my vehicle on my tax return), and possibly my tax preparer (if I use one) know the vehicle is being used for "business purposes." So, the rule is meaningless.

It's the same with you can't do business in your home. Pish tosh! I might be a salesman and store product samples or product literature in my home. Perhaps I telecommute and work from home. Maybe I conduct business over the internet. Maybe I just maintain an office at home but I travel to see clients. (There's that business use of my automobile again.) There is no sign on my door or in my yard. No clients or customers visit me. There is just no way to tell from the outside that I am using my home for business, except that I claim a home office deduction on my income taxes.

My point is, word the rule so that it accomplishes exactly what you want. If the issue is you don't want to allow vehicles that appear to be commercial or used for business, then say so. If the issue is you don't want someone to have a home business that results in excessive vehicle traffic or parking issues, then say so. Don't make rules that are ambiguous, that can be disputed, or can't always be easily and uniformly enforced.

In the one HOA that we were very tough on what was a commercail vehicle we all had two car garages so one could park anything they jolly well wanted to park if it fit in their garage so we could be "hard" as there was an alternative. In the OP's cited case of a company passenger vehicle we would have said it is commercial based on the advertising on it so it cannot be parked overnight in your driveway. Put it in the garage where as an identical vehicle with no signage was not commercial so it could be parked overnight in one's driveway.

In the OP's case it is all outside, lot parking so the rules that work in one case might well not work for his situation.

One thing to look at is does the vehicle require a Commercial Drivers License to operate but even this would still allow some fairly large trucks. To see the size, look at a truck rental site. They will tell you when a specific size or larger requires a CDL. 90% of the rent a trucks you see on the road do not require a CDL.

I would think one way for the OP to do it would be set aside an out of the way, specific area in the parking lot for commercial vehicles and dictate over a specific size is commercial but also limit it to no larger then a specifc size also. I think this can be done by weight.

Hope this helps.

Paul

You say:

As mentioned earlier some of the other "upscale" HOA's in our area do not allow any standard size vehicle with signage or any other vehicle used for business purposes as described above. Sounds like the OP's HOA has taken this approach.

While I advocated this approach in another HOA, we had alternatives such as garage parking. As the OP has only outside lot parking, I think we all agree that this approach will not work.

While I do not have an answer, I hope we can aid the OP in getting his BOD to realize their approach is to simple, unfair, does not fit their situation, etc. and aid him in getting the BOD back to the drawing board.

Hope we are helping.

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration has this definition:
§ 383.5 Subpart A Definitions.
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

Commerce is also defined.
Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.

Your state government probably has an equivalent or identical definition.

I probably view this differently from others because I work in the enforcement section of a government agency. Unless the vehicle meets this definition and is engaged in commerce it isn't a commercial vehicle. If an association wants to try ban vehicles with advertising or logos, then call it something else because commercial vehicle is already defined.