Roof replacement

As a number of people have said over and over...and over again - a HOA is not an us vs. them - the Association is YOU and all of your neighbors. All of you own the community assets of the community together, which includes the roofs, so when something needs to be fixed, all of you have to chip in to pay the expenses.

The price tage of the roof replacement may seem high, but have you spoken to the board about the matter? For example:

what type of problems did the engineering firm find?
when was the last time anything was done to the roofs?
Are some roofs in better or worse shape than others?
Do you have a reserve fund? If so, how much is in it? Rmember reserves have to pay for a number of repairs to the common area that will occur next year, the year after that and so on. It may be there isn't enough to pay for the roofs without depleting the fund?
When was the last time your board commissioned a reserve study?
Is this going to be paid with a loan, special assessment or fee increase - or perhaps all three?

As a practical matter, it may be the board has decided to replace the roofs with better material that will last longer - you may have to pay more up front, but if the useful life is for say, 40 years as opposed to 25 or 30, it may be a good deal for all of you.

There is no "typical cost for projects like this - you say you have 250 homes, so the cost will be higher simply because there are more roofs to replace. The size will also play a role, as will building codes which have probably changed in the 30 years since the community was built. You may not have any cheaper ooptions (although your board should be getting bids from at least 3 roofing companies to do a proper comparison). The only way you can "stop this" is not getting the work done - and then what will you do when you wake up one day and find rain coming down from your ceiling?

If your Board hasn't been forthcoming with your questions, you and your neighbors need to insist that they provide more information. If they have and you don't like what you're hearing, well, you may not like it, but that doesn't mean what you're hearing isn't true.

All of this may shound harsh, but it isn't meant to be. I live in a townhouse community (40 years old, 156 units) and we had a reserve study done last year that has indicated we're terribly underfunded - partly because the homeowners balked at raising fees. I'm treasurer and at our board meeting last night, I said given the community's needs, increasing delinquencies and really underfunded reserves, we have to be extremely careful with expenditures, but even then, people need to expect fee increases for at least the next 10 years and two colleagues weren't happy with it

I do understand hoa is one of us but I am surprised that when the majority
don't agree they have to hear our plea too. Talking and repeated emailing
weren't answered. I know no hoa can have 1.5 million under reserve but
won't part of it come from the reserve?
Two yrs ago they did roof on 30 units but now the engineering firm
says its not par to the code. So have to replace those too. All we residents r asking
for some time to find alternate solution like replacing part by part, getting bid from other firms etc
whichever works. When the board is not ready to hear us I want to know what
are our options to make it as open discussion rather than decided final decision.
Btw they r going to replace same type of roof whose typical life is
20-25 yrs

"Pay me now or pay me later" It doesn't really matter except you get to invest your money yourself if you pay later. I would suggest you try to make sure the bid is competative and that the materials to be used are not sub-standard (cheap).

Paul T

The money an Association receives comes from it's members. If the Association isn't planning ahead and placing money aside in a reserve fund to help offset future expected repairs/replacements, when repairs or replacements are required the membership has to fund the entire cost of the job (vs. already having the funds set aside).

If the members are not going to pay for the new roof who is?


I live in a town home development as well. $400 does seem high but if you are using a management company or property manager (vs. being self managed) there are costs associated with that that could explain the high amount. It also depends on how many lots/units are available to fund the budget and how many delinquent accounts there are within the Association.

When was your last reserve study done?


1.5 mil divided by 13K = 113 lots to share in the cost.

It sounds like either your Reserve Fund is drastically underfunded, this is an unexpected repair, the life expectancy of the roof was incorrectly calculated or you don't have a reserve fund that truly accounts for everything the Association is responsible for. One of those or residents weren't paying attention to how the money was being spent and the board spent available funds on other things.

To learn more about Reserve Studies see this thread:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/103517/view/topic/Default.aspx


Perhaps they did and the membership refused to fund the Reserves. We completed our first reserve study in 2010 (in 2010 our Association was 30 years old). Based on this study, we needed to raise assessments by 20%. For us, membership approval is required to raise assessments by that percentage. It took us two votes before the membership accepted the increase. Had the increase failed, we would have also faced a special assessment to pay for repairs.

Perhaps they started funding the reserves too late. Prior to our first reserve study, Association records show that the reserves were funded by seeing how much money was left over at the end of the year (this doesn't really work well).

Do you know when your last reserve study was done? It's good to review the study every year (to adjust for inflation) and to reevaluate/redo the study completely every 5 years or so.

Is there a line item in your budget to fund the Reserves? If not, this could have been a warning to the membership.


Depends. What power does the board have? Can they adopt special assessments without membership vote? If they can, the meeting may have been to just inform the membership of the decision.

If the decision has already been made it may be too late. However, you could try and recall the board and replace them with others who will consider other options. This does take time and has it's own issues. Has a contract been entered into? To break the contract could cost money. It's also possible that failure to repair the roof in a timely manner could be a liability issue. Additionally, if the the Association is aware that the roof needs repaired/replaced and fails to do it, if something happens, insurance might not cover the claim.

If it is too late, take it as an expensive lesson learned and become more active in the running of the association. Review and question the budget. Ask about reserves. Attend Board meetings to learn what the issues are. By attending you can also offer a different perspective or offer expertise in the issue being discussed.


It bothers me that this issue sounds like it came out of the blue. Typically, this type of an issue is discussed at board meetings for several months before decisions are made. Had members attended the meetings or read the minutes of those meetings it shouldn't be a surprise. If the Board discussed the issue in a newsletter, it shouldn't have been a surprise.

Without knowing specifics I couldn't comment on other options except to say that with every decision there are intended and unintended consequences. Therefore, do as much research as possible to identify the unintended consequences that may be associated with every option. This way you can make an informed decision. You should ask for a copy of the engineering report as it might have other options listed within it.

It's possible that the Board has been dealing with this for many months and have explored the options. Therefore, they don't really want to rehash all of it again and continue to delay the decision. I would suggest that you review past meeting minutes, a copy of the engineering report and then approach the board about options.

As I said, I also live in a town home development (but we are responsible for our own roofs). When I last replaced mine about 10 years ago it was around $2,000 (without all the plywood being replaced but some were). Gutters were done last year (front and back) and cost me about $2,000. Your issue sounds like there are structural issues (hence the engineering report). So another 8-9 thousand to replace or reinforce structure might not be unreasonable (as permits, drawings, etc. are likely required) depending on the scope of the work.

If the initial outlay is the issue, perhaps the board can locate a bank to loan the money. Then the Assessments would only have to be increased to cover the yearly cost of the loan. Providing everyone is current, this is an option. If the Association has a lot of delinquent accounts, a bank might not make the loan.

hope this helps,

Tim

Typically re-roofing does not include completely tearing off the plywood and replacing. Usually they just tear off the old shingles, and put down new ones. Not sure why they are replacing gutters unless they are in bad condition. If they are replacing the plywood, they either over sold you, or there are major, major roof issues. If that is the case, they may even need to replace some rafters. At this point, its no longer a new roof, its a major construction project. The $1.5 maybe high, or may be low. I have no idea of the condition of your property.