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Limited Power of Attorney for HOA Meetings

Started by ThomasC11 • 21 replies • 5815 views

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ThomasC11
Posts: 210
Posted:
Can a spouse attend HOA Meetings and communicate with MGMT. Co. on behalf of their wife, using Limited POA?
Person is not on deed, other than that, no issues.

JohnC46
Posts: 14,230
Posted:
I would think/expect that if I give a Limited POA then the person holding such can do almost anything (unless also limited) on my behalf on the "issue" regardless of their "relationship" to me. I have legally empowered them to act for me.

I could be wrong.

SteveM9
Posts: 3,688
Posted:
Well that depends. If the person is power of attorney and is attending meetings and is voting on behalf of the homeowner, that is fine. If the person is an elected position or officer, and the power of attorney is trying to run things, on behalf of the elected person, no its not fine.
ThomasC11
Posts: 210
Posted:
there is no request for voting rights, just to be able to communicate on behalf of wife since Prop Mgr. has refused to talk to anyone not on deed.
LarryB13
Posts: 4,089
Posted:
Thomas,

I once had a general power of attorney for my mother, now deceased. One thing I learned is that a power-of-attorney does not carry the same weight as a court appointment. The association or the management company may legally refuse to deal with the person named as attorney-in-fact. Social Security, for example, never recognizes a power-of-attorney; they have their own form that must be filed.

From your follow-up post, I see no reason to refuse to honor the request.

BTW, in case it should be an issue, a power-of-attorney expires upon the death of the person who executed it.
FredS7
Posts: 922
Posted:
I can buy a house for someone using a limited power of attorney. It seems a little strange that I can't...communicate about a problem with the landscaping, or plumbing, or whatever.
BonnieG1
Posts: 1,184
Posted:
I used to work for an insurance company and had to deal with multiple Power-of-Attorney documents. It depends on the wording the the POA document. Some limited POA documents are extremely limited such as giving the POA power only to deal with one specific financial insitution for a specifice purpose. Other limited Power-of-Attorny documents give rather broad powers to the POA with listing exceptions to the POA's authority,
It depends entirely on the the document is worded. Without actually seeing the document no one can answer this question--not even a lawyer. (I am not a lawyer).
GlenL
Posts: 5,429
Posted:
Thomas, look for language such as this in your documents: by an owner or any representative of an owner duly authorized in writing.

It is fairly common verbiage for CC&R's

BTW The MC & Property Mgr work for the Board, all the Board has to do is OK the POA and tell the PM to play nice.
PaulT6
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 09/14/2012 6:12 PM
Thomas,

I once had a general power of attorney for my mother, now deceased. One thing I learned is that a power-of-attorney does not carry the same weight as a court appointment. The association or the management company may legally refuse to deal with the person named as attorney-in-fact. Social Security, for example, never recognizes a power-of-attorney; they have their own form that must be filed.

From your follow-up post, I see no reason to refuse to honor the request.

BTW, in case it should be an issue, a power-of-attorney expires upon the death of the person who executed it.

I had exactly the same experiences with my mother, my wife's mother and aunt. Many organizations, especially banks, are really reluctant to accept POA. I would think your Board could instruct the property manager to deal with you, but if not, not much you can do about it as the Board has "the big desk".

Paul T
JohnC46
Posts: 14,230
Posted:


BTW The MC & Property Mgr work for the Board, all the Board has to do is OK the POA and tell the PM to play nice.

I agree with this.
TimB4
Posts: 20,986
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasC11 on 09/14/2012 5:28 PM

Prop Mgr. has refused to talk to anyone not on deed.

Sounds like the Property Manager and the Board need to have a chat as someone (or both) are being stupid.

Voting is one thing. Discussing issues is something completely different.
Would the Management Company refuse to take a check to pay assessments from the individual because his name isn't on the deed? I doubt it. Therefore, common sense says they should be willing to talk to them about various issues rather than just a flat out refusal.
ThomasC11
Posts: 210
Posted:
Had POA drafted by our Attorney, presented to PM and she refused to accept.

President says that this "transfer" of owner's right to spouse not on deed is not allowed in California.

Could not find this wording anywhere in Civil Code, anyone familiar with it?

TimB4
Posts: 20,986
Posted:
Civil code, Civil Code §5130, does prevent non-members from being your proxy representative.

Therefore, if it was a POA for voting, your Association may or may not be correct.
However, if it was a POA for anything but voting, I belive your Association is in the wrong not to accept it.

Additionally, since a proxy and power of attorney are different documents but similar in nature, it can become a gray area and an actual interpretation of the Statute by the courts may be required.
NpS
Posts: 4,187
Posted:
Attached is a copy of CA's standard form POA which is part of the Probate Code.

HOA cannot refuse a properly executed POA.

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄192455039671.pdf(42 KB)
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,366
Posted:
? WTF ?

CALIFORNIA GENERAL DURABLE POWER OF ATTORNEY
THE POWERS YOU GRANT BELOW ARE EFFECTIVE ONLY IF YOU BECOME DISABLED OR INCOMPETENT
RichardP13
Posts: 3,836
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 09/24/2015 11:42 AM
? WTF ?

CALIFORNIA GENERAL DURABLE POWER OF ATTORNEY
THE POWERS YOU GRANT BELOW ARE EFFECTIVE ONLY IF YOU BECOME DISABLED OR INCOMPETENT

Time to get back on your meds.
NpS
Posts: 4,187
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 09/24/2015 11:42 AM
? WTF ?


Link to sample CA Limited POA below:

https://wikidownload.com/wiki/california-limited-power-of-attorney-form-3/

Should never do a POA without a lawyer anyway.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13
Posts: 4,089
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasC11 on 09/24/2015 4:35 AM
Had POA drafted by our Attorney, presented to PM and she refused to accept.

President says that this "transfer" of owner's right to spouse not on deed is not allowed in California.

Could not find this wording anywhere in Civil Code, anyone familiar with it?


From the few court cases I have read on this subject in California, the association can refuse to allow anyone except an owner to attend a meeting.

My attorney told me that no one can be compelled to accept a power-of-attorney. It lacks the authority of a court order.

LarryB13
Posts: 4,089
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/24/2015 5:55 AM
Attached is a copy of CA's standard form POA which is part of the Probate Code.


Can you provide the source of this POA? There was no reference to statutes.

Quote:

HOA cannot refuse a properly executed POA.


Anyone can refuse to accept a POA, no matter how well drafted it is. If you want bullet-proof authority get a court order.

JohnC46
Posts: 14,230
Posted:
This is getting interesting. We have 3 thing issues/subjects going here:

1. Does a POA allow one to vote?
2. Does a POA allow one to speak?
3. Does one have to accept a POA?

My layman's answers would be:

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Yes.
LarryB13
Posts: 4,089
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/24/2015 2:43 PM
1. Does a POA allow one to vote?


In context of HOA's, this is dependent upon state law and association governing documents. In California it appears that no one other than the owner may attend a meeting, cast a vote, or exercise another owner's proxy.

Quote:

2. Does a POA allow one to speak?


Again, depends on state laws and governing documents. In AZ, for example, an owner may designate anyone to attend a meeting in their place and, by inference, speak as any owner might speak. So far it appears that in CA no one but an owner may attend a meeting, so if you cannot get in to the meeting speaking is a moot point.

Quote:

3. Does one have to accept a POA?


I know of no law that requires anyone to accept a POA.
RichardP13
Posts: 3,836
Posted:
In California, the POA will allow the holder to act on behalf of the owner in all matters EXCEPT running for elected office. A quitclaim will allow the spouse to become an owner and allow them to serve on a Board.

Sounds like they have control issues.

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