DeS (Iowa)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Iowa Code Chapter 614 - Previsions (several) and “Chipman‘s Subdivision Homeowners Association,” Iowa Court of Appeals Case No. 1-867/11-0545 were part of the Small Claims case prior to the decision.
It was discovered in a current lawsuit that our CC&R’s expired at least 21 years ago and probably longer. They cannot be reinstated. The Board and HOA attorney have been aware of this. The HOA attorney and HOA board knew the possible problems regarding Membership Agreement and expired CC&R’s before the they filed the latest suit against this particular member from this particular member. The HOA/HOA attorney were also the ones who entered documents concerning both into evidence during this last case. There is also a small claims judgment dismissing the HOA case against the member and that her Membership Agreement is not valid.
The Small Claims Judge also directed the HOA/HOA attorney to produce rule books from 2006-2011 as proof of notice an dissemination to the various member/.land owners affected by the same. No such “notice” documentation seems to exist and has not been presented.
This is not about insulting the attorney for entering this into evidence, the member/lot owners, who did not say anything, the member/lot owners who voted these things in, or the person/people who refuse to pay. We would just like any answers if you have been in this situation or insight you may have.
There have been lengthily searches of our county recorder where membership agreements need to be filed, per the membership agreement and part of the Small Claims ruling. Since 1990 only 8 of approximately 225 agreements have been verifiably filed. The case, as it is assumed all cases, was dismissed based on the membership agreement or the lowest level the Judge had to base his opinion on. This decision was appealed by the HOA/HOA attorney and oral arguments heard. We are waiting on the appeal decision. The HOA vowed to appeal to the Supreme Court if they loose again and of course no further evidence can be submitted.
The lot owner/member who was sued, brought this suit and Judgment to lot owner/members attention last weekend when she found out that this suit or ruling was on the agenda for the Annual Meeting and many lot owners/members did not know about it. (Or other lawsuits) Before anyone says “She should have paid“, a judge heard the evidence and dismissed the case. We have all heard about board bullying people and unfair practice. For the sake of argument, lets just stay that is true here and she does have a valid judgment She has had 4 cases now dismissed against her by the HOA. Please realize, you can only give people information, you cannot make them read it or act upon it.
The HOA attorney was at the annual meeting yesterday. The question is shouldn’t anyone who owns property be notified by their HOA/HOA attorney of this litigation and that CC&R’s expired since CC&R‘s concern all member/lot owners? If membership is also proven invalid, on the appeal, wouldn’t that mean any vote since at least 1990 needs to be revoked since the lot owners/members who voted were not a valid members except for possibly 8 people? By the way, we do not know if the 8 people even still all live here. But, was/is the board even legitimate? Were any of their decisions valid since none of the “Board‘s” membership agreements were on file? How about the new Board voted in yesterday, are they able to do anything since their membership agreements are not on file either? The filing may be only a small part of the membership agreement issue. This was brought to the board’s attention prior to the annual meeting and dozens of voting members sent emails. Everything went on as usual at the annual meeting without any mention. One person tried to bring up some things regarding this but was told to sit down because it was not on the agenda. This was the predicted concern prior to the meeting. The board knew or should have known in advance these questions were coming as many if not all were on the email lists- It is agreed, if it was not on the agenda, the board did not have to discuss it. But in all the months/years the board and their attorney knew about this issue, shouldn‘t some notification been issued at some time? Does anyone know what legal requirement if any they had to disclose this as it pertains to Iowa?
Most lot owners or members, call them what you will,, refused to look at the recent court order or other legal documents. They were also provided information where to search for these documents, the links online, phone numbers and email address to the government agencies to verify information for themselves.
Is it true, they could be living next to neighbors soon with cows and chickens, dilapidated cars, and boarded up trailers with 14 people tenting in their front yard? If and only if, the ruling stands, please leave any comments like “They get what they deserve” or the “could haves, should haves, would haves“, needs not be said. Many tried in vain and no luck. This will probably effect everyone, including those of us who tried to provide information. No matter the outcome of the membership agreement, the CC&R’s have expired. How can any bylaw or rule be changed on something that has expired at least 21 years ago?
Right now the ruling only affects the one person. Since this was appealed and argued in district court, won’t the ruling affect everyone who owns property if it is dismissed again and the ruling in favor of the Defendant? If it is dismissed, meaning only 8 people are members etc. what would it take to get the board to stop trying to collect, and enforce rules and bylaws? Wouldn’t the expired CC&R’s alone effect your property even if it does not effect every corporation bylaw? There are actually two hurdles to jump through. Membership agreement and expired CC&R’s. What does it take for the board to stop collecting on just the CC&R part if it is proven the bylaws are still in effect? They also passed a bylaw yesterday giving the HOA the right to put a lien on your property without serving any type of notice. It is believed most if not all the CC&R’s are under Rules and not bylaws. Under Building, zoning, Health and Sanitation regulations. It, in part, states must comply with all governing agencies codes, regulations, conditions and restrictions…..To shut this down, is it just the district court Judges ruling? If this is appealed to the Supreme Court, and it will be, what happens during that time? Is there a government agency that can cease the CC&R enforcement with or without a Judges order? How can prevention of member/lot owners from getting liens take place without them also having to go to court since many member/lot owners could not vote? We realize this is not a good situation, the attorneys are the winners, we need to get everyone together …… but do to the suit the association filed, the information is out there and cannot not be taken back. No need to remind us. Civil suit is probably coming, again we are not looking for the obvious, just what happens if…..
Per Iowa Secretary of State, Non-Profit laws you may revoke your membership. A couple of people apparently visibly foresaw the legal issues and the mess. The lot owners/membership voted yesterday that this can no longer happen. If the Iowa Code states it is legal, isn’t it legal? The Iowa Code does state you may be responsible for any past obligations. It was also part of the suit mentioned above. It is understood the Corporation and their paperwork are still “legal” and correctly filed with the Iowa Secretary of State. Is it true just because their corporation paperwork may be correct, it does not necessarily have any impact on any bylaws or CC&R’s. This is about the CC&R’s regarding the land and any votes, the membership took per the membership agreement.
If you can answer or give insight to any of the above that would be wonderful. If you are not overwhelmed and can give insight to any of the “smaller” issues below, that would be great.
Despite certified letters, writing emails, going to the office during normal business hours, lot owners/members totaling paid and current, the books are not available for review. Discovery will be needed and the books will be asked for when/if a civil suit it filed.
Lastly, this valid “membership” is getting smaller and smaller due to fines and fees and cannot vote. The office was total remodeled, lots of new pretty things and the Board said they paid for most of this with “fine“ money. Now, they want Happy Hour at the office. BYOB of course. Any opinions on liability? I understand the difference between Host, Hospitality and Dram Shop, but does anyone think this is a good idea or is cheaply insured? Especially since they just voted in to name them as lost insured on all boats, Voting that in passed. Why not include the board as lost insured on our cars, ATV’s, Golf Carts, …..? What are they even on them at all? We think we know, but the lot owners/membership has already voted it in without many questions if any. It may not even matter if they were voted in, depending on the membership issue, just wondering if other HOA’s do this and any problems they had.
Thanks
It was discovered in a current lawsuit that our CC&R’s expired at least 21 years ago and probably longer. They cannot be reinstated. The Board and HOA attorney have been aware of this. The HOA attorney and HOA board knew the possible problems regarding Membership Agreement and expired CC&R’s before the they filed the latest suit against this particular member from this particular member. The HOA/HOA attorney were also the ones who entered documents concerning both into evidence during this last case. There is also a small claims judgment dismissing the HOA case against the member and that her Membership Agreement is not valid.
The Small Claims Judge also directed the HOA/HOA attorney to produce rule books from 2006-2011 as proof of notice an dissemination to the various member/.land owners affected by the same. No such “notice” documentation seems to exist and has not been presented.
This is not about insulting the attorney for entering this into evidence, the member/lot owners, who did not say anything, the member/lot owners who voted these things in, or the person/people who refuse to pay. We would just like any answers if you have been in this situation or insight you may have.
There have been lengthily searches of our county recorder where membership agreements need to be filed, per the membership agreement and part of the Small Claims ruling. Since 1990 only 8 of approximately 225 agreements have been verifiably filed. The case, as it is assumed all cases, was dismissed based on the membership agreement or the lowest level the Judge had to base his opinion on. This decision was appealed by the HOA/HOA attorney and oral arguments heard. We are waiting on the appeal decision. The HOA vowed to appeal to the Supreme Court if they loose again and of course no further evidence can be submitted.
The lot owner/member who was sued, brought this suit and Judgment to lot owner/members attention last weekend when she found out that this suit or ruling was on the agenda for the Annual Meeting and many lot owners/members did not know about it. (Or other lawsuits) Before anyone says “She should have paid“, a judge heard the evidence and dismissed the case. We have all heard about board bullying people and unfair practice. For the sake of argument, lets just stay that is true here and she does have a valid judgment She has had 4 cases now dismissed against her by the HOA. Please realize, you can only give people information, you cannot make them read it or act upon it.
The HOA attorney was at the annual meeting yesterday. The question is shouldn’t anyone who owns property be notified by their HOA/HOA attorney of this litigation and that CC&R’s expired since CC&R‘s concern all member/lot owners? If membership is also proven invalid, on the appeal, wouldn’t that mean any vote since at least 1990 needs to be revoked since the lot owners/members who voted were not a valid members except for possibly 8 people? By the way, we do not know if the 8 people even still all live here. But, was/is the board even legitimate? Were any of their decisions valid since none of the “Board‘s” membership agreements were on file? How about the new Board voted in yesterday, are they able to do anything since their membership agreements are not on file either? The filing may be only a small part of the membership agreement issue. This was brought to the board’s attention prior to the annual meeting and dozens of voting members sent emails. Everything went on as usual at the annual meeting without any mention. One person tried to bring up some things regarding this but was told to sit down because it was not on the agenda. This was the predicted concern prior to the meeting. The board knew or should have known in advance these questions were coming as many if not all were on the email lists- It is agreed, if it was not on the agenda, the board did not have to discuss it. But in all the months/years the board and their attorney knew about this issue, shouldn‘t some notification been issued at some time? Does anyone know what legal requirement if any they had to disclose this as it pertains to Iowa?
Most lot owners or members, call them what you will,, refused to look at the recent court order or other legal documents. They were also provided information where to search for these documents, the links online, phone numbers and email address to the government agencies to verify information for themselves.
Is it true, they could be living next to neighbors soon with cows and chickens, dilapidated cars, and boarded up trailers with 14 people tenting in their front yard? If and only if, the ruling stands, please leave any comments like “They get what they deserve” or the “could haves, should haves, would haves“, needs not be said. Many tried in vain and no luck. This will probably effect everyone, including those of us who tried to provide information. No matter the outcome of the membership agreement, the CC&R’s have expired. How can any bylaw or rule be changed on something that has expired at least 21 years ago?
Right now the ruling only affects the one person. Since this was appealed and argued in district court, won’t the ruling affect everyone who owns property if it is dismissed again and the ruling in favor of the Defendant? If it is dismissed, meaning only 8 people are members etc. what would it take to get the board to stop trying to collect, and enforce rules and bylaws? Wouldn’t the expired CC&R’s alone effect your property even if it does not effect every corporation bylaw? There are actually two hurdles to jump through. Membership agreement and expired CC&R’s. What does it take for the board to stop collecting on just the CC&R part if it is proven the bylaws are still in effect? They also passed a bylaw yesterday giving the HOA the right to put a lien on your property without serving any type of notice. It is believed most if not all the CC&R’s are under Rules and not bylaws. Under Building, zoning, Health and Sanitation regulations. It, in part, states must comply with all governing agencies codes, regulations, conditions and restrictions…..To shut this down, is it just the district court Judges ruling? If this is appealed to the Supreme Court, and it will be, what happens during that time? Is there a government agency that can cease the CC&R enforcement with or without a Judges order? How can prevention of member/lot owners from getting liens take place without them also having to go to court since many member/lot owners could not vote? We realize this is not a good situation, the attorneys are the winners, we need to get everyone together …… but do to the suit the association filed, the information is out there and cannot not be taken back. No need to remind us. Civil suit is probably coming, again we are not looking for the obvious, just what happens if…..
Per Iowa Secretary of State, Non-Profit laws you may revoke your membership. A couple of people apparently visibly foresaw the legal issues and the mess. The lot owners/membership voted yesterday that this can no longer happen. If the Iowa Code states it is legal, isn’t it legal? The Iowa Code does state you may be responsible for any past obligations. It was also part of the suit mentioned above. It is understood the Corporation and their paperwork are still “legal” and correctly filed with the Iowa Secretary of State. Is it true just because their corporation paperwork may be correct, it does not necessarily have any impact on any bylaws or CC&R’s. This is about the CC&R’s regarding the land and any votes, the membership took per the membership agreement.
If you can answer or give insight to any of the above that would be wonderful. If you are not overwhelmed and can give insight to any of the “smaller” issues below, that would be great.
Despite certified letters, writing emails, going to the office during normal business hours, lot owners/members totaling paid and current, the books are not available for review. Discovery will be needed and the books will be asked for when/if a civil suit it filed.
Lastly, this valid “membership” is getting smaller and smaller due to fines and fees and cannot vote. The office was total remodeled, lots of new pretty things and the Board said they paid for most of this with “fine“ money. Now, they want Happy Hour at the office. BYOB of course. Any opinions on liability? I understand the difference between Host, Hospitality and Dram Shop, but does anyone think this is a good idea or is cheaply insured? Especially since they just voted in to name them as lost insured on all boats, Voting that in passed. Why not include the board as lost insured on our cars, ATV’s, Golf Carts, …..? What are they even on them at all? We think we know, but the lot owners/membership has already voted it in without many questions if any. It may not even matter if they were voted in, depending on the membership issue, just wondering if other HOA’s do this and any problems they had.
Thanks