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RickH4 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I live in VA in a a small 15 unit association. They (the association) for the last 3 years that I have owned here have never given out a meeting agenda prior to or just before any meeting. As well as never give out the minutes afterward unless i request it.
So the meeting which is run by the president is basically improvised, changed around on the spot via the president/meeting speaker. How is this allowed. Aren't we the association supposed to by law receive the agenda at least a month prior so the free for all doesn't take place and so we have some guidelines? I have found the VA Condo Act website but I want to make sure that applies to a VA HOA as well. I believe it does.

Here is that page;
QUESTION: I live in a condo association where the Board regularly has meetings, but does not regularly give notice of those meetings to any of the unit owners. On the occasions when they do give owners notice of the meetings, they do not always give the owners a copy of the agenda or subject matter of the meetings. What is the Board required to do with regard to giving prior notice and circulating copies of the agenda to unit owners?   
RESPONSE: This issue is covered by Section 55-79.75 of the Virginia Condo Act. First, it is important to distinguish between unit owner meetings (which generally occur only once per year), and board/director meetings (which may occur regularly throughout the year). 
Subsection (A) of the aforementioned Code section states that all owners must receive prior written notice (via regular mail or hand delivery) of allunit owner meetings. That notice must state the date, time, and place of the meeting, and must also state the "purposes of such meeting," which essentially means that the unit owners must either receive a formal agenda, or at least be given some indication of what will be discussed, decided, or voted upon at the unit owner meeting.
Subsection (B) of the aforementioned Code section applies to meetings of the executive organ (Board of Directors). These requirements are slightly different than the requirements for owner meetings. For Board meetings, the Board must publish notice of the time, date and place of the upcoming meeting in a place "where it is reasonably calculated to be available to a majority of the unit owners." This does not specifically require that written notice be mailed to the owners, nor does it require that owners be provided with an advanced copy of the meeting agenda. 
Subsection (B), in its discussion of Board meetings, later states that an owner can make a written request to the Association that he/she be provided written notice of all upcoming Board meetings, and the Board must honor that request. The unit owner making that request must submit it in writing at least once per year to the Association. 
Further, the information that is being provided to the Board members in preparation of their Board meeting (commonly referred to as a "Board packet") must be "made available for inspection" to the unit owners "at the same time such documents are furnished to the members of the executive organ." This does not mean that each unit owner is entitled to have an agenda or board packet mailed to him prior to each board meeting, but instead only requires that the Association manager (or whoever handles these affairs) make the board packet available for inspection at the same time the Directors receive this information prior to the meeting. Please note, however, that any documents in the Board packet relating to matters that the Board can discuss confidentially in 'executive session' may be lawfully excluded from the packet available for inspection by all unit owners.
Thus, in summary, the Board is obligated to send prior written notice and agendas to all owners in advance of any unit owner meeting. For Board meetings, the Board is only obligated to make a reasonable good-faith effort to publish notice of the meeting to all unit owners (which may be mailing out notice to everyone, putting notices on a bulletin board or in the elevators, posting on the Association website, etc.), unless a unit owner sends the Board a written request, at least once per year, asking for written notice of all upcoming meetings. The Board is not, however, obligated to mail out copies of an agenda prior to its Board meetings, but must honor the request of any unit owner wanting to inspect the board packet prior to the upcoming board meeting.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 8:34 AM
I live in VA in a a small 15 unit association.
I have found the VA Condo Act website but I want to make sure that applies to a VA HOA as well. I believe it does.

Rick,

Using the "unit" vs. "lot" in your posting gives the impression that you also live in a condominium. However, you then ask if the condo law applies to VA HOAs. This is a little confusing. Can you clarify?

Condominums must comply with the VA Condominium Act
Home Owner Associations must comply with VA Property Owners' Association Act
If any Association is incorporated they must also comply with corporate laws, typically the Virginia Nonstock Corporation Act

Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 8:34 AM

They (the association) for the last 3 years that I have owned here have never given out a meeting agenda prior to or just before any meeting.

I am of the expectation that you are discussing meetings of the Board and not meetings of the general membership.

As cited in both laws (condo and hoa):
"at least one copy of all agenda packets and materials furnished to members of the executive organ or subcommittee or other committee thereof for a meeting shall be made available for inspection by the membership of the unit owners' association at the same time such documents are furnished to the members of the executive organ. "

Therefore, if an agenda is used, it should be made available.
If the agenda is not used, there would be nothing to be made available.

Boards may typically run their board meeting however they wish. Agenda's are typically used but not requited.

FOR MEETINGS OF THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP:

Typically the governing documents require an agenda for the annual meeting. VA laws also require, as part of the notice for general membership meetings, the purpose of the meeting be included.

Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 8:34 AM

As well as never give out the minutes afterward unless i request it.

VA law requires that approved minutes be made available "upon request".
VA law requires that unapproved minutes be made available within 60 days of the meeting or when distributed in an board packet (whichever is first)

Although it would be nice for you Association to publish them to the membership on a regular basis, they only really have to provide them upon request.

Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 8:34 AM

Aren't we the association supposed to by law receive the agenda at least a month prior so the free for all doesn't take place and so we have some guidelines?

Notice requirements can vary.

Per the law: Notice of the time, date and place is all that is required for Board meetings.

Here is a link to Fairfax County Community Association Manual which is a great guide for Assocaitions within Fairfax County, a good guide for Associations within VA (as it refers to VA laws) and a decent reference for all other Associations. They tend to use plain language (vs. legalize) to explain how things are to run.

Hope this helps,

Tim
RickH4 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Hi yes. I do not live in a condo. I do however live in a duplex. There are a total of 15 homeowners here in our HOA
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Rick,

Duplex's could be either one (just like town homes).

Are you positive, your Association is not a Condominium Association (your governing documents should be able to tell you that).
RickH4 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes sir I am? It is specifically called a Homeowners Association
RickH4 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
And Tim I have requested the agendas on multiple occasions and have yet to receive them.
RickH4 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Tim I'm speaking of both annual home owners association and board meetings. No agendas are ever provided before any of them even when requested nor are minutes provided after.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 11:00 AM
Yes sir I am? It is specifically called a Homeowners Association

That doesn't mean anything. Typically, a condominium describes how the common areas are owned.

In my own case, our association is also called a "homeowners association" and that's how the name appears on our Articles of Incorporation. However, we are actually, and according to CT law, a condominium because of the manner in which the common areas are owned. Our declaration (CCRs) also refer to the association as a homeowners association, but right on the front page, the development is referred to as a "condominium community."

I'm not saying you are a condominium, you may not be. I am simply saying that you can't judge what you are by the name your association happens to call itself. You need to find put the definition of a condominium vs. a planned unit development (PUD) in your state and then look at your Declaration to see which definition applies.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 11:02 AM
And Tim I have requested the agendas on multiple occasions and have yet to receive them.

Rick,

Per the VPOAA and VA corporate law, the notice requirements are only for the date, time and place of the meeting.In the case of special meetings (those that are not normally scheduled) the Association must also include the purpose of that meeting. Your governing documents (CC&Rs, Bylaws, Articles of Incorporation and Resolutions) may or may not require additional items to be included in the notice.

Condominiums might have additional requirements. However, per your posting, you are an HOA and not a condominium. Therefore, condominium law would not apply.

It is typical to have an agenda. However, not every board uses an agenda and they are not required to.

If an agenda is used and provided to board members, VA law requires that the membership be allowed to inspect it at the same time it is provided to the board members. Note: inspect is not the same as have a copy.

If your board is using an agenda and refusing to allow the membership to inspect it upon request, they are in violation of VA law.

Now what can you do about that?

As you know there are civil laws and criminal laws. Criminal laws are usually enforced by the State. Civil laws are usually enforced by the individuals involved and they do this through the court system. Since contracts, hoa/coa laws and corporate laws are considered civil laws, there is typically limited governmental authorities to "oversee" or enforce those laws.

This is why it's imperative that the members remain active in the development and actually take an interest in how the Association is governed. If apathy sets in (and, unfortunately it does), it becomes that much more difficult to change things when issues are discovered.

VA does have an ombudsman to investigate complaints about Associations (HOA or COA). Depending on the issue, they may or may not have some authority to remedy the situation. However, since their power is limited (as they are not a court of law) they cannot assist in all matters.

I believe that you have the following options:

1) Recall the board and elect members who will comply with the law
2) At the next election, elect new members who will comply with the law
3) Submit your name to be elected to the board and, if elected, comply with the law
4) File a complaint with the VA Common Interest Community Ombudsman
(may or may not produce results. use the sample complaint form to make sure you have all the information required.
5) Hire an Attorney to seek a court order for the Association to produce the documents and comply with the law.
6) Live with it (in silence or grumbling)
7) Sell and move
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickH4 on 09/09/2012 11:07 AM

nor are minutes provided after.

Rick,

Earlier in the thread, you posted that the minutes were being provided when you requested them. Therefore, regarding access to the minutes, it sounds like your Board is complying with the law

The law clearly specifies that the approved minutes must be made available "upon request." Minutes typically are not approved until the next meeting. If the next meeting is within 60 days, the Board doesn't have to provide the draft minutes.

Granted, it would be nice for Associations to post minutes where they are accessible to the membership. Most Associations do not do this and, in Virginia, are not required to post minutes.

Does your Association have a web site?

Perhaps you could offer your time to post the minutes to the website.

Does your Association have a common room?

Perhaps you could offer your time to maintain a records area of the common room to allow members to review the minutes and other documents.

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