Need help on wording for items in the backyard

Started by TomL2 • 15 replies • 2234 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TomL2 (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Attempting to get the wording to modify the Deed Restriction but having some trouble and curious to know how to generate the wording.

Our HOA allows fences and you can store stuff in your yard provided it is not visible from the street.
Now some people have sheds and the roofs are visible from the street.
Unless you build a shed under 5-6 feet it will be visible from the street. A shed this small isn't going to be useful.
As a result, the deed restriction needs to be worded to incorporate a shed.
What we want to avoid is people thinking they can now store there motor home in their yard as it will clearly be visible.
Also some boats can be hidden yet others will still have parts that are above the fence line and visible from the street.
Another item to be avoided is people building tree houses as well.

Now it seems that simply stating only sheds are allowed is all that it would take, but we don't want limit the people because of other items
that are acceptable but we have yet simply thought about.

As I type this, a thought popped in my head.....

What about simply stating that objects in the yard behind the fence can not be visible from the street without written approval.

This way it can be evaluated on a case by case scenario.

What do you think?

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Deed restriction sounds kind of severe and complicated. I think you could add to or revise your existing C&R's or subset of Covenants rules. We use this and it works pretty well: See Section IV, Private Property Rules

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/covenantsrules.pdf

Paul T

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Tom

Do not confuse storing things like boats, motorhomes, skimobiles, old cars, etc. on ones property with sheds.

One control of sheds is roof peak height and size. Other typical shed controls are materials, appearance, foundation, etc.

If I have an 8ft fence, not much can be seen from the street. Thus can my old junker car being stripped for parts be stored behind the 8ft fence as long as one cannot see it from the street?

Now if I have a shed can I not park the car being stripped for parts in the shed?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Tom,

I suspect that your CC&Rs already have a covenant that says exterior changes can not be made without prior approval from the Association (most CC&Rs have this). A shed is an exterior change.

Therefore, you need to develop a guideline. Guidelines are used by the approving authority as parameters for approving or disapproving requests. The best way to develop guidelines is to involve the membership.

As John said, the guideline could define roof peak height and size. Other typical shed controls are materials, appearance, foundation, etc. You should also consider the foundation the shed is sitting on when determining height (will include the foundation or not).

This is our guideline on sheds:

STORAGE SHEDS, PERMANENT:
Permanent storage sheds require approval from the Architectural Committee. This approval is in
addition to any required county permits. Permanent storage sheds are considered to be larger
than two (2) feet in depth and four (4) feet in width or are sheds of any size which are expected
to convey with the property when sold.
The following should be considered when requesting approval for a permanent shed:
- Storage sheds shall be restricted to rear yard locations and should not be visible from the
front of the dwelling unit or from a street.
- The color and material of proposed sheds shall be approved by the Architectural
Committee
- Sheds should not exceed 48 square feet of floor space
- Sheds may not exceed 7 feet in height when installed and measured from the ground.
This height measurement would include the physical height of the shed and the height of
any foundation the shed is built on.
- The roof of the shed should either be flat or sloped, toward the property it is installed on.

STORAGE SHEDS, TEMPORARY
Temporary storage sheds are considered to be those products made of heavy vinyl or plastic that
are less than two (2) feet in depth and four (4) feet in width and are not expected to convey with
the property when sold. Temporary storage sheds do not require Architectural Approval
providing the following criteria is adhered to:
- Storage sheds shall be restricted to rear yard locations and should not be visible from the
front of the dwelling unit or from a street
- Sheds may not exceed 7 feet in height when installed and measured from the ground.
This height measurement would include the physical height of the shed and the height of
any foundation the shed is built on.
- The roof of the shed should either be flat or sloped inward, toward the property it is
installed on, with a pitch similar to that of the dwelling unit.

Hope it helps,

Tim

JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Why not ask the members what they want?

Afterall they'll have to approve whatever you come up with.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Deed restriction sounds kind of severe and complicated. I think you could add to or revise your existing C&R's or subset of Covenants rules.

The CCRs are in fact the deed restrictions ..... can only be ammended by vote of the members and then must be (re)recorded against ALL THE DEEDS.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 09/05/2012 6:41 AM

Deed restriction sounds kind of severe and complicated. I think you could add to or revise your existing C&R's or subset of Covenants rules.

The CCRs are in fact the deed restrictions ..... can only be ammended by vote of the members and then must be (re)recorded against ALL THE DEEDS.

John,

I think I understand what you are saying? I think the OP was asking about changing the actual deed restrictions? In our case part of the deed restrictions says something like this:

" The property owner will become a member of the ABC Association and will be responsible for paying all assessment or other fees and abide by the Association's governing documents"

The actual governing documents are not spelled out in the deed.

Part of the "acceptance's" the new owner signs for states something like:

" I have been provided copies of the Association's governing documents, and have read and understand them" (copies provided by the title company)

In the OP's case I think it would be easier to add to or revise the existing C&R's rather than change the deed restrictions?

Paul T

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Paul

In SC, Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&R's) are included/registered with the deed thus are deed restrictions. Also many (our HOA) have the Bylaws also registered thus they are also deed restrictions. This is not unique to SC. It is quite common in many states.

Most deed restrictions may well say no out buildings nor fences thus it would require a Covenant change to allow such. The BOD nor management has the right to change the Covenants. Only a majority of the homeowners can. This majority is usually in the 66% randge. Same as low as 51%, some as high as 100%.

Other deed restrictions might say out buildings and fences are allowed but must be approved. This means the BOD (designated committee, etc) can set Rules and Regulations for such without owner approval. This is quite often the issue. How tight are the R&R's and what will/did they approve.

None of the above can override local zoning restrictions but can be tougher then local zoning regulations. As an example, local zoning might say no fence can be over 8ft tall but the BOD can say no fence over 6ft tall.

You have linked to some docs for your association. I can tell you most docs are 30 to 50 pages long, not just 5 pages. Our docs are 45 pages, small print, single line saced, double sided pages. One HOA I know has 4 pages on shed restrictions alone.....LOL

I do not think we are comparing apples to apples here.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

John,

"Apples to apples", Right, being a "Legal" novice I may not be describing everything correctly. Our Governing Documents:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/governingdocs.pdf

are 137 pages. In addition, we have a sub-set of Covenants Rules, written by our Covenants Committee and Staff, that are based on the C&R's and can be added or revised with just BOD approval, giving us some flexibility:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/covenantsrules.pdf

We have the same thing for our Architectural Standards Rules:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/asorules.pdf

I just joined this Forum and find it interesting as to how other HOA's do things. One can always learn from others experiences. Thanks for the input.

Paul T

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Paul

I did a quick read of the Covenants. First I commend your association for posting them on-line for all to see.

Yours are quite extensive as it appears they allow diffferent structures to be built from single homes to multi-unit buildings. Am I correct?

It also appears there might well could be other owners associations under the master Covenants. Meaning in a multi-unit building, could there also not be an owners association with Covenants for that building alone?

Is the overall development (over 6,000 acres I believe) under owner control?

Thanks for helping me better understand.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/05/2012 1:40 PM
Paul

I did a quick read of the Covenants. First I commend your association for posting them on-line for all to see.

Yours are quite extensive as it appears they allow different structures to be built from single homes to multi-unit buildings. Am I correct?

It also appears there might well could be other owners associations under the master Covenants. Meaning in a multi-unit building, could there also not be an owners association with Covenants for that building alone?

Is the overall development (over 6,000 acres I believe) under owner control?

Thanks for helping me better understand.

Yes, mostly single family houses, some 4 unit condos, and some 2 unit multi family units.

Yes, the condos are "associations" within the Tahoe Donner Association and have their own set of governing docs in addition to the TD docs.

Yes, any sale or revision of Common area or "Other Association Owned Property", which is an undeveloped approximate 2,500 acre section within the total approximate 7,000 acres, is subject to Membership approval (vote). The individual members do not directly own the properties, except for the approximately 5,800 private property parcels. The "Association" owns the common areas and the "Other Association Owned Properties" Here is a map:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ActivityMap_Small_AmenityMapALL.pdf

The "Other Association properties", approximately 2,500 undeveloped acres, lies basically to the northwest.

An overall description:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/what-is-tahoe-donner/

Paul T

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/05/2012 11:49 AM

Posted By JohnB26 on 09/05/2012 6:41 AM

Deed restriction sounds kind of severe and complicated. I think you could add to or revise your existing C&R's or subset of Covenants rules.

The CCRs are in fact the deed restrictions ..... can only be ammended by vote of the members and then must be (re)recorded against ALL THE DEEDS.

I made a mistake. After getting a copy of our deed I find there is no mention of our Association on it or any other type of restrictions. However, I do remember it being part of the escrow signing process as described above. My apologies for the error.

Paul T

TomL2 (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thanks for all the replies.

Just to clarify, we are in the process of rewriting the original deed restrictions to add, remove and clarify some points.

Each and every addition, subtraction or modification will be voted on by the community.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Tom,

In that case, I would keep the wording generalized.

Sheds may not be built without prior authorization.

This way, through the guidelines, the Association can take into consideration advances in building materials and designs without the need to once again amend the deed restrictions.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2012 2:27 AM
Tom,

In that case, I would keep the wording generalized.

Sheds may not be built without prior authorization.

This way, through the guidelines, the Association can take into consideration advances in building materials and designs without the need to once again amend the deed restrictions.

I agree. Deed restrictions should be general like out buildings/fences are not allowed or if allowed then they are allowed based on guidelines established by so and so committee and subject to written approval by so an so committee.

Never have wording like approved or disapproved if the committee does not respond in xx days. Make it explicit. Written permission must be given.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/06/2012 5:24 AM

Never have wording like approved or disapproved if the committee does not respond in xx days. Make it explicit.

As a member of the Board - I agree as this keeps the records straight.

As a member of an Association - I disagree. If the approving authority doesn't have regular meetings or they just don't meet (for whatever reason) the member shouldn't be made to wait or have higher costs because the Association didn't do it's job. This clause forces the Association to take action or have the request be automatically approved (providing the member can show proof of the Association receiving the request).

This actually happened to me. At the time, I was in conflict with the Board and the ACC over an enforcement issue (which I won and resulted in many changes). Since I didn't have friends on the Association, I sent in a request to add eve vents to my home via certified mail. I have the receipt where the Association (actual board member at the time) signed for it. I never heard from the Association on that request. After 30 days, as our documents allow, I installed the vents. When I was elected to the board I searched all records and that letter was no where to be found. It could have been misplaced or intentionally thrown out. Fortunately, I didn't have to continue to incur high cooling bills because I my documents allowed me to install the vents. If I was ever challenged, I had proof with the certified letter.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here