HOA Gun Ban on Common Area

JustineP (Arizona)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Our HOA is located in Arizona and some of my board members are discussing creating a policy that bans guns from all of the common areas, including the pool, exercise room, Cafe and community center. Does anybody have any experience with this and if it is legal? Any information would help. Thanks, Justine

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Think this is covered under "Concealed weapons" laws and common sense...People who own guns aren't broadcasting it...I mean who is going to bring a loaded gun to a swimming pool? If they are doing that then you have the right to call the law...They either stupid or up to something...

Former HOA President

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

If any of your amenities are open to the public your local community may have ordinances covering that subject. If everything is private you can probably do about whatever you want to as long as it does not violate any local, State or Federal laws.

Paul T

JustineP (Arizona)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Unfortunately, we have a homeowner that is bringing his gun to the pool and into the exercise room. We're normally a very peaceful 55+ community, but this behavior is causing concern and the talk of banning guns.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JustineP on 09/04/2012 3:54 PM
Unfortunately, we have a homeowner that is bringing his gun to the pool and into the exercise room. We're normally a very peaceful 55+ community, but this behavior is causing concern and the talk of banning guns.

Suggest you have a "private" talk with your local police department. Sounds a bit scary.
"Normal", "rational" people don't do that in my opinion. I am not anti-gun, owning and using guns for over 65 years and a lifetime NRA Member. The person sounds like he may need some help, dangerous waters ahesd? Be careful about confronting him.

Paul T

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I agree with Paul.

Consult with the police before enacting any policies. They may just have you call them the next time it happens.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This is a police matter not HOA. Gun laws vary state to state. Concealed weapons need licence to carry. Openly carrying it is different. Places can band weapons even permitted. Those places are like hospitals, army bases, libraries, and those with public interest. Surprisingly one can carry a gun into an airport. It has to be declared and not in carry on.
A HOA is more private property and may or not be able to limit this. It is best to check with the police.

Former HOA President

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

If, in your area "open carry" is permitted you may have to go it alone? In our case we can establish a rule that is more restrictive than local laws or ordinances as long as it only applies to our Association Properties or Private Properties within the Association. If you don't already have something on the books you might want to consider something like this:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Except for immediate transportation to or from ones vehicle the following items, but not limited to, are prohibited to be in one's possession while on Association properties:

Any type or kind of firearm or gas or spring pressure gun
Any type of sword, knife, club or any other type of weapon prohibited by local laws.
Any type of bow and arrow or cross bow

These restrictions do not apply to any legal items kept within one's private residence

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or something similar to the above. Let us know how it all comes out.

Paul T

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Surprisingly one can carry a gun into an airport.

Not true.... In many big city airports, in states where its legal to carry, carrying a gun into an airport will get you arrested. But not if its locked in a gun case.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> Suggest you have a "private" talk with your local police department. Sounds a bit scary.

> who is going to bring a loaded gun to a swimming pool?

Apparently you are not familiar with Arizona.

As a non-AZ native, I find this business of carrying guns around both wacky and intimidating. If is allowable I personally would favor banning guns from the public areas. However Arizona being what it is, this has the potential of turning into a constitutional fight.

For what it's worth, according to the NYTimes, Arizona and a few other states allow loaded guns in bars.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Looking into this, the HOA can ban gun possession on HOA property by posting a reasonable notice. Violators face criminal trespass charges for refusing to honor the request. 2nd Amendment issues arise between the federal government and the private citizen. AZ's state constitution reinforces gun rights in public.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Kelly could you post a link to how the HOA could do this by posting a reasonable notice? While I understand the right to bar people with concealed carry to enter certain businesses and organizations. What you're saying is the HOA has the right without an amendment of the CC&R's to prohibit someone from carrying on their own property, since each member has an equal share of the common areas.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Welcome to Arizona.

You must be a new-comer because the rest of us all have guns, although few of us carry them with us constantly.

The law is not on your side in this matter. About two years ago the legislature amended the statutes to allow anyone who may legally own a gun to carry it concealed without a permit. Prior to that, the law required either a concealed weapons permit or required that the gun be carried openly.

There is a long history of various organizations, mostly cities, attempting to impose their own restrictions. The city of Tombstone's no-carry law from the time of Wyatt Earp was shot down in the courts as was a Phoenix ordinance prohibiting guns in city parks. The courts have held that the language in the state law prevents others from prempting it.

Per ARS 13-3102, you can legally demand that the person "remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01."

ARS 13-3102.01 A provides: "If an operator of a public establishment or a sponsor of a public event requests that a person carrying a deadly weapon remove the weapon, the operator or sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the establishment or event and allow for the immediate retrieval of the weapon on exit from the establishment or event."

So, if you do not wish your resident to carry his gun at the pool or other common areas, you are required by law to provide him with a secure storage place for his gun while he is there.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

After a little more thought on the matter I do not think you can do anything if this person is an owner or a tenant. The statutes that I mentioned about storing weapons applies only to public facilities or events. I assume that your areas are not truly public facilities.

The statutes specifically allow a person to carry a firearm "in his dwelling, on his business premises or on real property owned or leased by that person or that person's parent, grandparent or legal guardian."

Whether you are an HOA or a condo, each owner has a property interest in the common areas. If the person in question is either an owner or the tenant of an owner, he cannot be prevented from carrying his gun into those areas.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I agree with Larry and keeping the gun in a safe place in the public common areas. This may extend to cell phones or other property. Do you have lockers? I would look into putting in some lockers and requiring locks on them.

It's just common sense to not have a loaded gun around children or complete strangers. If you lock the gun up in your house or keep the bullets separate, why combine the two in a public place accessible to children/strangers? It's best to offer the option of locking it up for so many reason. May not like it but use some kind of common sense when your out in public. Do you think someone may not attack you or call the police if they see a gun on your person? I don't care if your the "Good guy". Someone sees a gun, they are going to assume the worst. It's just in bad taste but not necessarily against the law...

Former HOA President

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

I don't follow the concern here. I presume this individual is legally permitted to carry a gun and is doing so responsibly, not waving it about or leaving it unattended or something like that. What is the fear? Shouldn't the concern be over the nutcase who is illegally carrying that you don't know about?

Fwiw, our bylaws have a section pertaining to the discharge of guns on the premises, but nothing about the possession.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/04/2012 9:25 PM
After a little more thought on the matter I do not think you can do anything if this person is an owner or a tenant. The statutes that I mentioned about storing weapons applies only to public facilities or events. I assume that your areas are not truly public facilities.

The statutes specifically allow a person to carry a firearm "in his dwelling, on his business premises or on real property owned or leased by that person or that person's parent, grandparent or legal guardian."

Whether you are an HOA or a condo, each owner has a property interest in the common areas. If the person in question is either an owner or the tenant of an owner, he cannot be prevented from carrying his gun into those areas.

Justine,

Been reading this again and am wondering:

1. Are your amenities open to the public, if so the statue that Larry quotes may over ride your wishes?

2. If your amenities are truly private I would think you could revise your GD's to prohibit "open carry" in common areas?

It would be interesting to know how it all comes out.

Thanks, Paul T

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Paul/Justine:

First, let me make it clear that I do not like the idea of anyone wandering around a community with a firearm. Just because it may be legal does not make it right.

State law is on the side of the pistol-packer. Your association could amend the governing documents to prohibit carrying guns, but it will almost definitely lead to a showdown between the association and the NRA. The NRA has almost unlimited funds in its warchest. With the law on his side and the NRA at his back, what are the chances of the association winning this war?

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Justine: Is there only 1 person that is causing all the concern? Is he required to have a permit? Has the Board ever written him a letter explaining that the community has become concerned about him bringing his gun to the pool and the exercise room. Explain to him as the protectors of the Association members (homeowners, including him), the Board is requesting him to not bring his weapon to the common areas. If there is something in your CC&R's pertaining to guns quote it in your letter. We have in our CC&R's a Section that states "Certain Obligations and Access Rights to the Common Area" - Quoting-"The Association, subject to the rights of the Owners as set forth in this Declaration, shall be responsible for the management and control, for the exclusive benefit of the Owners as provided herein, of the Common Area owned by the Association and for the maintenance of the same in good, clean, attractive, "safe" and sanitary condition, order and repair." Hopefully he will listen to you and stop. As a Board member the homeowners are the ones you have to protect. They are feeling threatened by this man just by seeing the gun. Write the gun toting homeowner a letter. I also suggest you go to the Police and discuss all the aspects and ask what they can do. Read the law about it being OK to carry a gun. Certainly there is something in the law that does not give him the OK to endanger other lives. There must be some kind of restrictions in the law. You say the age of your community is 55+. How old is the man with the gun? You know as we get older our brains go haywire. Could he possible be dangerous? This is not a normal action. Talk to some of the people that know him and get some input from them. If I lived in your community I would be very afraid. Please don't wait to long before writing him a letter. Good luck in your efforts and be safe.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyG3 on 09/07/2012 5:39 AM
Hopefully he will listen to you and stop. As a Board member the homeowners are the ones you have to protect. They are feeling threatened by this man just by seeing the gun. Write the gun toting homeowner a letter. I also suggest you go to the Police and discuss all the aspects and ask what they can do. Read the law about it being OK to carry a gun. Certainly there is something in the law that does not give him the OK to endanger other lives. There must be some kind of restrictions in the law. You say the age of your community is 55+. How old is the man with the gun? You know as we get older our brains go haywire. Could he possible be dangerous? This is not a normal action. Talk to some of the people that know him and get some input from them. If I lived in your community I would be very afraid. Please don't wait to long before writing him a letter. Good luck in your efforts and be safe.

In what way is he endangering lives simply be being in possession of a firearm?

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Dave - I hope you read my entire message. You only picked out one sentence, so regarding your question,my reply is doesn't private citizens endanger lives that are in possession of a firearm especially in public places. I'm not against ownership of firearms, I just believe there are responsibilities and common sense that go along with ownership. It seems to me this post has no idea what type person this man is or if they do they haven't said. Don't you think it is better to assume something before it happens when something has been reported to the Board and the homeowners are concerned. It may never happen, but an ounce of prevention is better than doing nothing. If he has no intent of using the firearm, why does he carry it? Besides it's not him being in possession of a firearm, it's that he is carrying it into the common areas around children and people. If he is reasonable, a letter from the Board should take care of the homeowners concerns. There could be a perfect explanation as to why he carries his firearm. Is he a policeman, CIA, FBI, Terrorist, a nut or a good ole Cowboy. Nobody knowns until the Board finds out. I still would be concerned. Stay safe Dave.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

That's the point though, Nancy. Assuming he's like any other responsible citizen who carries a sidearm, he DOES intend to use it. He certainly hopes that he doesn't have to, but should such an event occur where it becomes necessary, he absolutely intends to use it.

If the HOA board is concerned to the point where they want to have a background check done to see if there's some reason why he shouldn't be in the possession of a firearm, that's fine. Assuming that there's an issue or that he's somehow a threat is an indication to me that those who are concerned need to wrap their heads around the fact that we're an armed society and that a LOT of people they come into contact with every day are armed, but they're just unaware of it.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Dave: Are you willing to assume he is a responsible citizen without checking it out? You also wrote: "those who are concerned need to wrap their heads around the fact that we're an armed society and that a LOT of people they come into contact with every day are armed, but they're just unaware of it."

Guess I'm one of these people. I hope they have a permit. However, if I see someone in public like this situation and didn't know him I would be concerned like these homeowners ((: Wonder if he wears it like a six shooter?

Just kidding.) My point is the Board should check into his background or talk with homeowners who know him and try to find out what type person he is. I still think a letter to him explaining the concerns is in order. Even if the man doesn't respond, the Board has covered themselves by handling the concern of the Association.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyG3 on 09/07/2012 9:08 AM
Dave - I hope you read my entire message. You only picked out one sentence, so regarding your question,my reply is doesn't private citizens endanger lives that are in possession of a firearm especially in public places. I'm not against ownership of firearms, I just believe there are responsibilities and common sense that go along with ownership. It seems to me this post has no idea what type person this man is or if they do they haven't said. Don't you think it is better to assume something before it happens when something has been reported to the Board and the homeowners are concerned. It may never happen, but an ounce of prevention is better than doing nothing. If he has no intent of using the firearm, why does he carry it? Besides it's not him being in possession of a firearm, it's that he is carrying it into the common areas around children and people. If he is reasonable, a letter from the Board should take care of the homeowners concerns. There could be a perfect explanation as to why he carries his firearm. Is he a policeman, CIA, FBI, Terrorist, a nut or a good ole Cowboy. Nobody knowns until the Board finds out. I still would be concerned. Stay safe Dave.

Nancy,

The Arizona Legislature has already decided this matter and, in my opinion, the resident with the gun is doing what the law allows him to do.

Please do not interpret my comments to mean that I think what he is doing is a good idea. My opinion is that people who routinely carry firearms openly fall into two categories: 1) those who want others to think they are badasses who should be left alone; or 2) those who really are badasses involved in criminal activity who have reason to fear those they deal with. (These are pretty much the reasons why people own pit bulls, too.) Arizona law permits the resident to carry his gun concealed without a permit yet he has chosen to carry his openly, leading me to the conclusion that he is trying to create an image that he is someone not to mess with.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Dave: Read message posted on this from Larry B. Thanks, Nancy

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Thank you Larry. I was reading all your messages previously posted when you responded to my message to Dave. Your message is very well written. You said it best with fewer words. I still think the Board should write him a letter setting forth the concerns of the homeowners stating the State laws. This would at least protect the Board that they put him on notice of the concerns of his neighbors. Even if he never responds and keeps doing what he legally can do according to Arizona Legislature the Board at least tried. If no reply from him then go to the police and discuss it with them.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

I have kind of lost track of the details in all the smoke and gunfire (sorry).
However, if your HOA is entirely "private", I would think you could write in just about any kind of restrictions into your GD's you want to, excluding his private residence and the immediate transportation of the gun to and from his car?

If your amenities are open to the public you may have to abide by the local or state law. As I mentioned earlier I would be very careful about approaching him directly. In my opinion anybody that "open carries" in a 55 age HOA has a "hair trigger" (sorry again).
Please be careful.

Paul T

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Given the few details that were provided, we only know that this guy is bringing a gun with him to the pool and exercise room. Maybe he's carrying openly, maybe he's carrying concealed and just made it known to someone else that he's carrying who then told 2 friends who told 2 friends, etc... However, from the tone of the posts, it's apparently a routine thing. Has he acted in such a way that he's demonstrated himself to be a danger to the public? If so, then the police should have been called. Perhaps he just stops by the pool/gym to start his day and continues to carry with him wherever he goes. We don't know. All we know is that someone is carrying a gun and hasn't shot anyone with it. Happens with lots of people every day. Rushing to judge this individual as a potential threat or a danger to society or anything of the sort serves no purpose.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Dave,

Point taken, I can only speak from what I have read here. from Justine's earlier post:

"Unfortunately, we have a homeowner that is bringing his gun to the pool and into the exercise room. We're normally a very peaceful 55+ community, but this behavior is causing concern and the talk of banning guns."

It appears that:

1. The gun is plainly visible with little or no attempt to conceal it.
2. No way to know if it is loaded, short of examining it.
3. The gun's appearance is causing concern from the 55+ community
4. The reason for the person to wear/carry a gun in this situation has not been explained

I would also be concerned if the person had an ax, sword, cross bow, baseball bat, without a mit or ball, or other similar type of things that could be used as a weapon with him in those locations. Maybe if he went to a biker bar instead of a 55+ community pool or exercise room it might be looked at differently. I think the focus of concern is about the person?

As mentioned in my earlier post, "Normal", "rational" people don't do that in my opinion. I am not anti-gun, owning and using guns for over 65 years and a lifetime NRA Member.

Just my opinion, offered at no cost and for what it is worth,

Paul T

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

I think I might be more concerned if he was going to the pool with a baseball bat and mitt! LOL

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Maybe it's time for Justine to give us more information regarding this man. Also, what are the Boards plans on handling this matter. There has been some good advise and different opinions, however, the ones that have to make the decision is Justine's Board. Everybody be safe and stay alert.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 09/07/2012 4:45 PM
I think I might be more concerned if he was going to the pool with a baseball bat and mitt! LOL

No problem, he just lost his way from the ball park. I think nancy is right the ball is in the HOA Board's court. We could beat the "what if" factor to death, but it is up to them .

Paul T

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/07/2012 4:27 PM
No way to know if it is loaded, short of examining it.

Decades ago there was a vitriolic TV talk show host named Joe Pine. Someone asked him if he kept a loaded gun in his home. He answered that he stored all his guns loaded because whenever someone is shot by accident they always say that they thought the gun was not loaded.

I always assume that a gun is loaded until I can verify that it is not.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/07/2012 8:31 PM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/07/2012 4:27 PM
No way to know if it is loaded, short of examining it.

Decades ago there was a vitriolic TV talk show host named Joe Pine. Someone asked him if he kept a loaded gun in his home. He answered that he stored all his guns loaded because whenever someone is shot by accident they always say that they thought the gun was not loaded.

I always assume that a gun is loaded until I can verify that it is not.

Yes, ALWAYS. I doubt that he would carry it in the open unloaded unless he is just trying to pull everybody's chain. That would be the better alternative, however.

Paul T

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

There is such a thing called "Gun Ettiquette". This would fall in those lines overall. The law may say it's okay to carry a gun out in the open but ettiquette calls for something else. It just sounds like this person needs a few gun classes and gun education. Any idiot or good person can carry a gun...It's just knowing the proper way of doing so that is important.

Police officers, FBI agents, and other professions required to carry guns do have a protocol when doing so. It's just a courtesy to the general public and for our protection. I believe anyone purchasing a gun should be trained properly and given the correct protocols of when and where to display a weapon.

I would maybe invite to a meeting a gun expert to offer training on proper gun ettiquette and use. Say you may be allowed to have a gun in your home but you must follow these ettiquette guidelines set forth by a professional. NOT just the HOA's opinion...That may help clarify what HOA can do and what the gun owner's want.

Former HOA President

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/08/2012 7:38 AM
There is such a thing called "Gun Etiquette". This would fall in those lines overall. The law may say it's okay to carry a gun out in the open but etiquette calls for something else. It just sounds like this person needs a few gun classes and gun education. Any idiot or good person can carry a gun...It's just knowing the proper way of doing so that is important.

Police officers, FBI agents, and other professions required to carry guns do have a protocol when doing so. It's just a courtesy to the general public and for our protection. I believe anyone purchasing a gun should be trained properly and given the correct protocols of when and where to display a weapon.

I would maybe invite to a meeting a gun expert to offer training on proper gun etiquette and use. Say you may be allowed to have a gun in your home but you must follow these etiquette guidelines set forth by a professional. NOT just the HOA's opinion...That may help clarify what HOA can do and what the gun owner's want.

Melissa,

I guess there are many approaches one could take. Re-reading Justine's post it appears to me that

1. If the gun is not loaded he may be just be a mischievous kind of person

2. If the gun is loaded and he is fearing for his life in a 55+ community pool and excercise room he may be somewhat unstable

3. If it is #2 I doubt he would be receptive to a lecture about gun etiquette

As mentioned earlier discussing the whole thing with her Police Dept would be the first thing to do and then plan her actions, if any, based on their input.

Justine, are you still out there?

Paul T

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 8:38 AM

As mentioned earlier discussing the whole thing with her Police Dept would be the first thing to do and then plan her actions, if any, based on their input.

Just what exactly do you expect the police to do? The resident is carrying a firearm openly as allowed by statute and he is carrying it on property where he is part owner.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/08/2012 11:48 AM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 8:38 AM

As mentioned earlier discussing the whole thing with her Police Dept would be the first thing to do and then plan her actions, if any, based on their input.

Just what exactly do you expect the police to do? The resident is carrying a firearm openly as allowed by statute and he is carrying it on property where he is part owner.

Larry,

I should have been more specific. I was/am not advocating that the Police should come out, cuff, and throw the person in jail. I can't think of a better place to go for information and advice for a situation like this. I would hope Justine could find out:

1. Is the person acting within the law?

2. If not, how can the Police help?

3. If so, what recommendations can the Police offer?

4. What have others, faced with a similar situation, done?

5. What the person's motivations may be

6. Any other background information the Police could provide to help determine what, if any, actions the HOA could or should do.

I would think that, unless the amenities are open to the public, the HOA is "private" and can establish restrictions so that the membership doesn't have to live in fear. My novice opinion, of course. It might be well for the HOA to consult with an attorney before taking any kind of action.

Paul T

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

From another thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/1m-bond-man-accused-ky-homeowners-shooting-133722615.html

Very interesting reading the background info.

Paul T

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Right after moving into our HOA patio home, a neighbor out walking his dogs stopped and said hello. Polite old guy. Came around a few times to say hello. Sometime later I noticed he was wearing a snub nose .38 in an ankle holster. Legal here in SC with the right perrmits but right then and there I started ducking the guy. I said to me wife he is a crazy old fu*k.

While I own handguns and have permit to carry, carrying it in ones own neighborhood says either one is a crazy/stupid fu*k or the rest of us should move out of that type neighborhood now.

I would explore if the HOA can ban handguns on their property and I would have no issues with that if done in my HOA.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 12:46 PM

I was/am not advocating that the Police should come out, cuff, and throw the person in jail. I can't think of a better place to go for information and advice for a situation like this. I would hope Justine could find out:

1. Is the person acting within the law?

2. If not, how can the Police help?

3. If so, what recommendations can the Police offer?

4. What have others, faced with a similar situation, done?

5. What the person's motivations may be

6. Any other background information the Police could provide to help determine what, if any, actions the HOA could or should do.

I would think that, unless the amenities are open to the public, the HOA is "private" and can establish restrictions so that the membership doesn't have to live in fear. My novice opinion, of course. It might be well for the HOA to consult with an attorney before taking any kind of action.

These are all good question and should be addressed to the HOA's attorney. Police officers are not qualified nor authorized to dispense legal advice.

The HOA's facilities are privately owned and the resident with the gun is one of the owners. Since state law allows a person to carry a firearm on property he owns or leases, the HOA's best option may be to offer to buy him out.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/08/2012 2:32 PM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 12:46 PM

I was/am not advocating that the Police should come out, cuff, and throw the person in jail. I can't think of a better place to go for information and advice for a situation like this. I would hope Justine could find out:

1. Is the person acting within the law?

2. If not, how can the Police help?

3. If so, what recommendations can the Police offer?

4. What have others, faced with a similar situation, done?

5. What the person's motivations may be

6. Any other background information the Police could provide to help determine what, if any, actions the HOA could or should do.

I would think that, unless the amenities are open to the public, the HOA is "private" and can establish restrictions so that the membership doesn't have to live in fear. My novice opinion, of course. It might be well for the HOA to consult with an attorney before taking any kind of action.

These are all good question and should be addressed to the HOA's attorney. Police officers are not qualified nor authorized to dispense legal advice.

The HOA's facilities are privately owned and the resident with the gun is one of the owners. Since state law allows a person to carry a firearm on property he owns or leases, the HOA's best option may be to offer to buy him out.

Larry,

My questions for the police were for general information. If, after answering #1 the Police Dept declined to comment on the rest, so be it. I did suggest the HOA seek legal advice in my last sentence. We had excellent input from our Police Dept related to a dispute we had with a contractor displaying aggressive and unusual behavior. In our HOA the Assn "owns" the common area, not the individual members. So the common area may not be "his"? I guess that is what attorneys are for?

Paul T

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/08/2012 1:20 PM
Right after moving into our HOA patio home, a neighbor out walking his dogs stopped and said hello. Polite old guy. Came around a few times to say hello. Sometime later I noticed he was wearing a snub nose .38 in an ankle holster. Legal here in SC with the right perrmits but right then and there I started ducking the guy. I said to me wife he is a crazy old fu*k.

While I own handguns and have permit to carry, carrying it in ones own neighborhood says either one is a crazy/stupid fu*k or the rest of us should move out of that type neighborhood now.

I would explore if the HOA can ban handguns on their property and I would have no issues with that if done in my HOA.

John,

Come on, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel :-) Totally agree. We carry when hiking in very remote areas but so as not to frighten or offend anyone it is concealed.
Sometime back we had what looked like a homeless guy starting to follow us about 50 yards to our side just inside the tree line. When we stopped, he stopped, just inside the tree line. After doing this about 3 times I stopped in a clearing, took the gun out of my fanny pack and put it in my waist band. As soon as he saw me do this he immediately dissappeared. I think Larry thinks I am anti-gun, couldn't be further than the truth. I am, however, concerned about people displaying "unusual" behavior as stated in Justine's posts.

Paul T

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 1:15 PM
From another thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/1m-bond-man-accused-ky-homeowners-shooting-133722615.html

Very interesting reading the background info.

Paul T

Aside from both individuals being gun owners, I don't see any parallels from that article to this thread
Justine's guy peacefully carries. No indication that the guy in the article did
Justine's guy has not threatened anyone. The guy in the article did.
Justine gave no indication of an ongoing dispute between her guy and the HOA. The guy in the article had an axe to grind
Ahhh... both of them WERE members of an HOA though. Probably not enough evidence by itself though

My apologies, but I simply don't follow, and frankly disagree with the belief that if someone is carrying a gun, whether open or concealed, they must be an unstable lunatic that should be feared.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 09/08/2012 3:54 PM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 1:15 PM
From another thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/1m-bond-man-accused-ky-homeowners-shooting-133722615.html

Very interesting reading the background info.

Paul T

Aside from both individuals being gun owners, I don't see any parallels from that article to this thread
Justine's guy peacefully carries. No indication that the guy in the article did
Justine's guy has not threatened anyone. The guy in the article did.
Justine gave no indication of an ongoing dispute between her guy and the HOA. The guy in the article had an axe to grind
Ahhh... both of them WERE members of an HOA though. Probably not enough evidence by itself though

My apologies, but I simply don't follow, and frankly disagree with the belief that if someone is carrying a gun, whether open or concealed, they must be an unstable lunatic that should be feared.

Dave, I said I think someone open carrying in a 55+ HOA community pool and exercise room is "unusual" behavior. I did not say anyone carrying was an unstable lunatic. As noted in my post I carry at times but do try to be discreet about so as not to frighten or offend anyone. There is a time and place for open carry but in my opinion the 55+ community pool and exercise room is not the place, Just my opinion.

Paul T

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

This might be helpful, but this is an interesting thread.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 09/08/2012 6:48 PM
www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

This might be helpful, but this is an interesting thread.

Kelly,

Very interesting. It seem to speak mostly about concealed carry? I didn't see anything about open carry as a separate subject? As mentioned earlier, maybe that is what attorneys are for?

Paul T

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 5:58 PM

Posted By DaveD3 on 09/08/2012 3:54 PM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 1:15 PM
From another thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/1m-bond-man-accused-ky-homeowners-shooting-133722615.html

Very interesting reading the background info.

Paul T

Aside from both individuals being gun owners, I don't see any parallels from that article to this thread
Justine's guy peacefully carries. No indication that the guy in the article did
Justine's guy has not threatened anyone. The guy in the article did.
Justine gave no indication of an ongoing dispute between her guy and the HOA. The guy in the article had an axe to grind
Ahhh... both of them WERE members of an HOA though. Probably not enough evidence by itself though

My apologies, but I simply don't follow, and frankly disagree with the belief that if someone is carrying a gun, whether open or concealed, they must be an unstable lunatic that should be feared.

Dave, I said I think someone open carrying in a 55+ HOA community pool and exercise room is "unusual" behavior. I did not say anyone carrying was an unstable lunatic. As noted in my post I carry at times but do try to be discreet about so as not to frighten or offend anyone. There is a time and place for open carry but in my opinion the 55+ community pool and exercise room is not the place, Just my opinion.

Paul T

Sorry Paul,
Quoted your thread for the first portion of my comment, but wasn't directing the last sentence in your way. The general trend of responses in this thread seems to lean in the direction where anyone carrying a gun should be feared as mentally unstable.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Is this why banning guns on common area is worth pursuing? "Mahmoud Hindi, Louiville Ky" took out the HOA president.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 09/09/2012 10:20 AM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 5:58 PM

Posted By DaveD3 on 09/08/2012 3:54 PM

Posted By PaulT6 on 09/08/2012 1:15 PM
From another thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/1m-bond-man-accused-ky-homeowners-shooting-133722615.html

Very interesting reading the background info.

Paul T

Aside from both individuals being gun owners, I don't see any parallels from that article to this thread
Justine's guy peacefully carries. No indication that the guy in the article did
Justine's guy has not threatened anyone. The guy in the article did.
Justine gave no indication of an ongoing dispute between her guy and the HOA. The guy in the article had an axe to grind
Ahhh... both of them WERE members of an HOA though. Probably not enough evidence by itself though

My apologies, but I simply don't follow, and frankly disagree with the belief that if someone is carrying a gun, whether open or concealed, they must be an unstable lunatic that should be feared.

Dave, I said I think someone open carrying in a 55+ HOA community pool and exercise room is "unusual" behavior. I did not say anyone carrying was an unstable lunatic. As noted in my post I carry at times but do try to be discreet about so as not to frighten or offend anyone. There is a time and place for open carry but in my opinion the 55+ community pool and exercise room is not the place, Just my opinion.

Paul T

Sorry Paul,
Quoted your thread for the first portion of my comment, but wasn't directing the last sentence in your way. The general trend of responses in this thread seems to lean in the direction where anyone carrying a gun should be feared as mentally unstable.

Dave,

No problem. You may be right about your last sentence. Having owned and using guns for
65 years and being a life member of the NRA I am always interested in people's positions on guns. It is my OPINION that:

1. MANY people are frightened of guns

2. MANY people are offended by guns

3. MANY, MANY people want to take away my right to own guns

For those reasons when I carry, which is only when my wife and I are hiking or 4 wheeling in very remote areas, I carry concealed, don't want to frighten anybody. I think the reaction on this thread is from WHERE the person is open carrying.

Paul T

Paul T
Dave