💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
I am the VP on my HOA’s Board of Directors. Until about 6 months ago our HOA compliance committee would notify residents of covenant violations by visiting the residents. This practice was something that I was not in agreement with and I made it known during several board meetings. Another member was of the same opinion and about six months ago we made a motion that passed to no longer make notifications in that manner. As part of the motion notifications will be made formally in writing to include the violation with specific reference to the covenants, time limit to correct, who to contact in case of appeal or question(s), and notice that the board may take legal action if the issue is not rectified. These are to be tracked unlike before.

Some of the board members seem to have a change of heart and want to revive the visits. Despite possible aggressive behavior of the residents, in the case of rentals only speaking to the tenant and not the owner, repeatedly being ignored by resident, no traceability, our legal counsel stating unless we put in writing we can’t go to court and if we are sued when do not have proof of our actions,… The reason they want home visits again is because they feel it is neighborly!

So, I am asking for opinions on this?

If it helps we are a fully built subdivision, with 100+ homes, our HOA is voluntary and made up of residents, and we are not using a property management company. Approximately 10% of the homes are rented but we can never be sure. We currently have about 6-7 homes with active violations and we have trouble getting volunteers for the compliance committee and therefore the board has taken over that role. Normally, the committee (with a board member liaison) will handle initial notifications; appeals will be heard by the board.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
EW

Personal visits are nice and can make it seem more neighborly. That said, you never know who or what you will run into.

I say keep it in writing but alao make the first notification personal and friendly. Do not start with threats.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Our Architectural committee is responsible for initial covenant enforcement.

We let the members of the committee make that decision as some people are comfortable with it and some are not.
Our official process is:

Informal Notice (written or verbal)
Formal Notice (written, sent via first class mail)
Hearing before the committee (notice of hearing sent via certified mail)
Hearing before the Board (notice of hearing sent via certified mail)

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/02/2012 1:27 PM
Our Architectural committee is responsible for initial covenant enforcement.

We let the members of the committee make that decision as some people are comfortable with it and some are not.
Our official process is:

Informal Notice (written or verbal)
Formal Notice (written, sent via first class mail)
Hearing before the committee (notice of hearing sent via certified mail)
Hearing before the Board (notice of hearing sent via certified mail)


Solid procedure.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Tim -

I definitely appreciate the formal progression as you have outlined above. We start with the more formal, what we have found from responding to Architectural requests and our annual dues notices is that the Informal Notices don't really work here. So we try to keep it formal plus include actions that can be taken to appeal and actions that the board may take if not resolved. We get complaints and threats no matter what we do so we are following legal counsel's advice.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/02/2012 1:21 PM
EW

Personal visits are nice and can make it seem more neighborly. That said, you never know who or what you will run into.

I say keep it in writing but alao make the first notification personal and friendly. Do not start with threats.


EW,

You are spot on. I was the Chairman of our 6,000 mamber HOA Covenants Committee for 16 years and can tell you "neighborly" doesn't cut it. You need to deal with the property OWNER only. Here is a link to our Covenants Rules Enforcement Procedures that I wrote many years ago:

http://www.tahoedonner.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/covenantsrules.pdf

It is simple, clear and it works. When things get "sticky" proper documentation is vital.

Paul T
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Paul

I think in your situation, vacation resort, mainly part time livers, short term rentals, a full time staff, can cut off amenities, etc, what you have is appropiate.

I think your procedure is overkill in a primarily owner, occupied, full time living, many know each other, etc. arrangement.

EW

I think you go to quickly to quoting rules/regulations, fines, etc. Yes you say the initial polite letter/phone call does not work, but I still believe in such as a first step.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EW4 on 09/02/2012 3:16 PM
Tim -

I definitely appreciate the formal progression as you have outlined above. We start with the more formal,

Each Association has to do what works best for them.

We have 130 lots with mostly resident owners and find that the informal process (be it verbal or written) works 80% of the time. When we send the formal notice, we reference the informal notice in the letter so there is a paper trail about it.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/02/2012 3:46 PM
Paul

I think in your situation, vacation resort, mainly part time livers, short term rentals, a full time staff, can cut off amenities, etc, what you have is appropiate.

I think your procedure is overkill in a primarily owner, occupied, full time living, many know each other, etc. arrangement.

EW

I think you go to quickly to quoting rules/regulations, fines, etc. Yes you say the initial polite letter/phone call does not work, but I still believe in such as a first step.

John & EW,

Understood, every situation is different, I can only speak from my own experience. In her later years my mother was in a 40 or so member HOA. She was a Board member for a while but didn't like the politics, some Directors not agreeing with each other, such is life. They had property management so they didn't have to do the paperwork themselves. I got involved on her behalf and found things were pretty loose, resulting in some lawsuits. There are times when good documentation can be your friend. Just my opinion, offered at no cost, and for what it is worth.

Paul T
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
We let the property manager do the dirty work.
NE (Arizona)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I am also the VP of my HOA. The HOA has 195 homes. We do everything in writting for legal reasons however I DO think a "neighborly visit" may be a wise idea. Anything put into writing is more formal and therefore, to some, a "threat". By actually going to the home questions can be answered if needed and a better explaination of the problem can be expressed.

I actually will bring this up at our next meeting. Our HOA is an excellent one with low dues and volunteers who do a lot of the work that the HOA requires to the tune of a savings of over $75K in 4 years. HOWEVER, one person has made it a goal in life to trash our HOA and therefore influenced other homeowners against the HOA. AND this person is a RENTER! So I have made it MY goal to get the HOAs goodwill back. Now making a "neighborly visit" to this person might not be a wise idea. So best judgement is in order.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NE on 09/03/2012 5:45 AM

By actually going to the home questions can be answered if needed and a better explaination of the problem can be expressed.

One thing we have started doing with our written notices is to include a picture of the violation. This helps the member see exactly what the Association is concerned about and provides good documentation. With digital cameras being the norm now, it's minimal cost and a quick way to minimize denials.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/03/2012 6:31 AM
Posted By NE on 09/03/2012 5:45 AM

By actually going to the home questions can be answered if needed and a better explaination of the problem can be expressed.


One thing we have started doing with our written notices is to include a picture of the violation. This helps the member see exactly what the Association is concerned about and provides good documentation. With digital cameras being the norm now, it's minimal cost and a quick way to minimize denials.

We use pictures on all cases. The "personal" visit is your call. On anything other than minor issues I would suggest a written notice in addition. If it involves a renter I suggest you ALWAYS send a written notice to the OWNER.

Paul T
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
The last notification which was actually the first since going to written included a photo. The owner lives out of state. I do agree that photos should be included on all of them.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
My concern on the visits besides getting them documented is the potential behaviour of owners. Given what I have seen as of late, it is not wise to do the visits. Property Managers are trained in dealing with irrate homeowners, laws and regs but a volunteer board or committee member...no. Hence, by letter. Your case with the renter...wow! We have discussed renter issues and basically we are only going to deal with the owner. They own it and it is thier responsibilty to correct all of the issues. Hopefully, your HOA can get things turned around. I think the topic of getting a property manager is about due for us.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulT6 on 09/02/2012 5:38 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/02/2012 3:46 PM
Paul

I think in your situation, vacation resort, mainly part time livers, short term rentals, a full time staff, can cut off amenities, etc, what you have is appropiate.

I think your procedure is overkill in a primarily owner, occupied, full time living, many know each other, etc. arrangement.

EW

I think you go to quickly to quoting rules/regulations, fines, etc. Yes you say the initial polite letter/phone call does not work, but I still believe in such as a first step.


John & EW,

Understood, every situation is different, I can only speak from my own experience. In her later years my mother was in a 40 or so member HOA. She was a Board member for a while but didn't like the politics, some Directors not agreeing with each other, such is life. They had property management so they didn't have to do the paperwork themselves. I got involved on her behalf and found things were pretty loose, resulting in some lawsuits. There are times when good documentation can be your friend. Just my opinion, offered at no cost, and for what it is worth.

Paul T

Paul -

Thanks for the considered input. We are trying to change the let's handle these issues loosely to a more organized approach. There have been lawsuits in the past and counsel has stressed documentation. As a responsible homeowner I would respond very well to an initial letter w/o quotes of the rules,... unfortunately not the trend here. Many of the home visits when done did not work and were not documented. Our board and committees are thin on resources. We have a full board (head count) but really only the committed help of 2 members and spotty at best from others. We are trying to manage with the resources we have. That said I am going to take all of the input in this thread and outline it to the full board and ask that the full board make a considered decision on how to handle this given then constraint of our resources and homeowner make up. My HOA board can't continue to go back and forth on this...violations are increasing and little getting done.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Bruce -

Getting a property manager is a discussion that is on the near horizon. Too few committed members to handle what needs to be done. Even fewer that want to support compliance but want all of the benefits of compliant homeowners.

Funny, at one point we had residents complaining about people not paying annual dues and demanding the HOA hire a collections agent. (Our non-payment %rate was not that high.) We have a collections agency now and guess what those residents are complaining that we have a collection agency!

I see the same thing coming when/if we get a propery manager.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
EW,

You are on the right track. If the rest of the Members can'/won't step up to the plate, Property Management would be a good investment. The vast majority of our landlords do not live here and from my experience, most don't care about anything but collecting the rent. A 2 by 4 applied heavily between their eyes sometimes gets their attention. Good luck on your project. My opinion and for what it is worth.

Paul T
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
EW4, I may have missed it, but if your owners don't comply, do you then invite them to a hearing? This is what we do. 1st is a friendly letter stating the violation and the time period for compliance. If Owners don't comply, they get a second letter which is a call to hearing and which informs them they can present their approach to the topic.

Our CC&Rs, like most, make owners responsible for their tenants' behavior, but we still send a copy of the the letters to the tenants so that they're aware of the violation. Usually they correct it right away. Some landlords don't supply their tenants with our rules.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 09/03/2012 4:37 PM
EW4, I may have missed it, but if your owners don't comply, do you then invite them to a hearing? This is what we do. 1st is a friendly letter stating the violation and the time period for compliance. If Owners don't comply, they get a second letter which is a call to hearing and which informs them they can present their approach to the topic.

Our CC&Rs, like most, make owners responsible for their tenants' behavior, but we still send a copy of the the letters to the tenants so that they're aware of the violation. Usually they correct it right away. Some landlords don't supply their tenants with our rules.

Carol -

No you did not miss anything. I did not go into that aspect. When we have a fully functioning compliance committee the first appeal or contact for the homeowner is the compliance committee. If it cannot be resolved there then the homeowner can meet with the board to resolve. That is how it is set up but since we don't really have anyone on the committee any and all appeals come directly to the board. We let the property owners know that.

We don't send notice to the tenants. Sticking to keeping the contact between HOA and owner. It is the owner's responsibility. If the owner needs copies of the covenants to provide to the tenant they are readily available on our website or we can provide. We have a recent case that really speaks to the HOA not interacting with the tenant on these issues.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here