2 party HOA - deadlock

Started by JaimeR1 • 15 replies • 3024 views

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JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18

Posted:

We have a two flat condominium in San Francisco
Each condo is represented by the owner(s) in the HOA - no president - no secty - pretty informal.
In the beginning the two representatives got along. We both agreed to certain upgrades and repairs
The upstairs flat was sold several times - we remain.
The issue now is the other owner refuses to participate in anything unless we're constantly on him and even then
there are long periods of silence.
He basically sees nothing but his own flat and even when we bring his attention to an issue he stonewalls.
Once we had to threaten him with a law suit to get him to adhere to the CC&Rs - That gets tiresome.
It's frustrating at best. Anyone out there have the same problem? If so what did you do to remedy the
situation.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am not sure you get the concept of a HOA. It is only made up of you and your neighbors. There is no "they or them". You can't or shouldn't force a person to participate if they don't want to. Threatening to sue is just bad taste and overkill on your part. If one chooses NOT to participate, that is participation in itself. By NOT voting or participating means you give up any rights to make any decisions. Decisions are then made upon you.

It's time to stop forcing one to participate and stop worrying about them. If they are paying their dues, then majority rules over what to do with those dues. I promise you one thing...If you do something with those dues this person doesn't approve, they will show up at your doorstep to participate.

Apathy in a HOA is typical in ALL HOA's. It's nothing special to have one NOT participate. Can't spend time worrying about them as much as concerning yourself about the ones who choose to participate. Do the necessary business for the HOA to run. Participation or not of all the members, it still has to operate.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Jamie,

I understand how difficult it can be when the members do not want to participate. I can also understand how this issue can be extremely frustrating when there are only 2 members. This makes it harder as you also want to be good neighbors.

Since there are only 2 of you for the entire complex, if educating the other owner doesn't work then you must do what is needed to protect your home.

Check with an attorney, but if you don't have to wait for them to pitch in their share of the expenses, perhaps rather than taking them to court you could use a letter similar to the following:

Dear xyz,

This letter is to bring your attention to the following: abc
I suggest that this issue be addressed by: 123
Since funds are available in the Association, If I don't hear from you by mm/dd/yyyy (say 2-3 weeks), I will conclude that you agree with addressing the issue as describe and will proceed as the letter specifies.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

OR, as Melissa suggests (and if your governing documents allow) get them to agree to appoint you as the sole member of the board until they sell or provide written statement contrary. This would then give you the authority to act and make all decisions on behalf of the Association.

JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.
I guess the real issue is - we're very small in comparison to most HOAs.
Our monthly contribution is $100 each up from $50 each.
So it's not enough to pay for things like painting the building; re-roofing, garden maintenance; broken sewer pipes; etc
It's not even enough to pay for small things like tree pruning.
We're been (for the most part) patient for responses since we can't afford to go ahead with projects that need attention.
On the other hand we seem always the ones to notice items that need attention.
It's so one sided that we're at our whits' end...ergo this post.
We never want to take legal action - that was offered to you as point in fact - that's what it took to get him to DO something that was clearly a breach of the CC&Rs.
I think that short letter is something we can use..thank you

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Exactly how many are in your HOA? A little confused...2 members doesn't sound like enough. Not that can't happen but it's quite odd. More details may be helpful here...

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Melissa,

Reread the first post. It's a two flat (unit) condominium. Hence, only 2 members in the COA.

JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18

Posted:

that's correct
There are two condos..each has one vote
My partner and I own one and the other (upper) is owned by a 50 year old man and his parents
Each condo has one vote according the the bylaws.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

So what would happen in the case of a tie?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

In all Associations, if there is a tie, the motion fails to pass. Therefore, it depends on the wording of the motion.

Example:

Motion to hire a property manager - A tie prevents the Board from hiring a PM

Motion to not hire a property manager - A tie allow the board to hire a PM

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

Interesting. So in this 2 person association, the active member could just phrase things differently to create a more suitable condition. I am sure that the other owner would probably see something like "motion not to re-roof," vote no, and then be dealt with the unpleasant surprise that they are now obligated to pay for the necessary repairs.

Is that standard rules of order or must something like that be referenced in the covenants/by-laws/etc.?

I would think that if a two-person association was created the person writing the documents would of had to of considered what would happen in the instance of a tie.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinK7 on 09/03/2012 7:21 AM
Interesting. So in this 2 person association, the active member could just phrase things differently to create a more suitable condition.

Be it Governmental Politics or Corporate Politics, the details are always in the language used.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinK7 on 09/03/2012 7:21 AM

Is that standard rules of order or must something like that be referenced in the covenants/by-laws/etc.?

Standard rules. Per Roberts Rules Online FAQ:

In the event of a tie vote what are the President's duties or options?

On a tie vote, a motion requiring a majority vote for adoption is lost, since a tie is not a majority.

If the presiding officer is a member of the assembly, he can vote as any other member when the vote is by ballot. In all other cases the presiding officer, if a member of the assembly, can (but is not obliged to) vote whenever his vote will affect the result--that is, he can vote either to break or to cause a tie; or, in a case where a two-thirds vote is required, he can vote either to cause or to block the attainment of the necessary two thirds.

The chair cannot vote twice, once as a member, then again in his capacity as presiding officer. In an appeal from the decision of the chair, a tie vote sustains the chair's decision, even though his vote created the tie, on the principle that the decision of the chair can be reversed only by a majority.

For more information, refer to RONR (10th ed.), pp. 392-393.

JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18

Posted:

thanks again for your insight
i think we have a peculiar situation here as we don't even have meetings so we can't use the suggestion of a double negative to get something passed (good thought tho)
we never have enough money in the HOA account to go ahead and take care of some of the maintenance issues that arise without participation of the second membe.
what i really needed was to hear from other people with the exact same situation...and not suggestions that were
theoretical.
i know we have a strange situation and have been dealing with it the best i can - but i'm almost ready to sell my unit just to be rid of the frustration.
i believe the best suggestion was that short letter, and we'll use it if and when we have enough in the account to cover the costs.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Jamie,

Do you have a Reserve Fund?

All Associations, even small ones, should have a reserve fund as it allows for money to be set aside for expected repairs/replacements rather than having to cough up the full amount at once. The amount needed to be set aside for Reserves would be established by a Reserve Study. Having a Reserve fund might also minimize the need to meet in order to get some items repaired (as they would be scheduled to be done in year yyyy).

You can pay to have a study done or do one yourself. For more information on reserve studies see this thread.

Tim

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Negative motions aren't generally accepted if you follow Robert's Rules. Negative motions need public justification as to why a negative action must be positively approved. There's no need to approve a motion that, by design, authorizes no action.

Good political shenanighans, though.

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