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MikeJ8 (Illinois)
Posts: 45
Posted:
We have a small few homeowners who have refused to pay dues for many years. We file the liens on their propery every year. However, these homowners continue to use the common properties we maintain.

Can they be restricted from using HOA owned properties?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I didn't see anything in the Illinois CICA that would allow it but I just did a couple of keyword searches so it would fall to your CC&R's; do they allow it? If not you may need to amend them to get the results you desire. Please note you can usually restrict a delinquent homeowner from accessing amenities like the pool and other rec areas, you cannot for instance prohibit them from driving on community owned streets to access their home nor can you deny them things like water if paid through assessments. If in doubt about what you can or cannot do, ask your HOA attorney.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Do you send refresher letters to these owners just so they know they have a lien? I'd just make sure they know there is a lien. There are loopholes in the process. It' good to always do a follow up...

We did not deny lawncare services as that effected everyone involved. They weren't able to rent the clubhouse if they were behind in dues. Otherwise they had access to most amenities. However, it doesn't your HOA can't deny access. It just has to be in the rules and someone to monitor it.

Former HOA President
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
We have a small few homeowners who have refused to pay dues for many years. We file the liens on their propery every year.


And...... is that all your doing? In my HOA, if a homeowner stopped paying dues for 6 months, we would turn it over to an attorney. They would send out a letter informing the homeowner that the HOA intends to foreclose on their home and the estimated lawyer fees, including back dues, etc. This costs about $100 which I add to the homeowner's bill.

Typically, they always pay up. Although we did file foreclosure in one case which went all the way to court and before the judge. To avoid loosing his house that day, he agreed to pay all the lawyer fees ($4,000) and back dues ($1,200) and interest. He made a very expensive mistake.

Even if they didn't pay up, it wouldn't bother me if the HOA did have to foreclose because I would know eventually someone would move in who will pay. I'm not paying someone else's bills. Period.

Typically, you cannot ban them from common areas, you would have to read your CCR/Bylaws. But typically, no.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mike

My first line would be banning them from all amenities. We have no amenities so we do it different.

We have had discussion with a law/collection firm about unpaid dues. They use a multi step process to collect. To the best of my recollection it will go like this:

1. After 30 and 60 days late we send polite letters from the HOA. In the next quarterly bill, the HOA sends notice reminding the owner they are 90 days late and asks for back and present dues or a payment schedule acceptable to the HOA within 30 days or we will turn the account over to a law firm for collection. If no arrangements are made, we go to Step 2.

2. Law/collection firm sends a letter informing the homeowner that they have received the case and are prepared to file a lien and commence to foreclose unless owed dues are paid or a payment schedule is arranged with the HOA within 30 days. The firm charges the HOA $65.00 for this letter.

3. Law/collection firm sends a letter saying a lien has been filed and foreclosure has commenced. It will now cost the homeowner $495.00 (to the law firm) plus owed dues to the HOA to stop the process. No charge to the HOA.

4. Law/collection firm files some paperwork with the court about foreclosure and notifies the homeowner that foreclosure has begun and it will cost $995.00 (to the law firm) plus back dues to the HOA to stop the process.

5. The next step would be the HOA pays the law firm $400.00 and foreclosure commences. The process is completely stoppable at this point by the HOA and the HOA would have a lien.

Several came around after Step 2. One more came around after Step 3 and pleaded with us to drop it but we said sorry, it has already gone to far. We have one that keeps ignoring us.

We have not yet gone to (and candidly we do not intend to) Step 5.

MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Some HOA docs (like ours) allow for suspension of privileges (to include Pool and Parking). All of our streets are private so spaces are assigned (not owned).
We will give them plenty of warning, turn over debt to attorney for collections, file warrant in debt in some cases and tow cars from the common areas after they are suspended. They seem to pay everyone else IE the mortgage company, car loans, credit cards, but we seem to be the last one to get paid. Late fees are $25. Also, if your attorney can pull up and verify the mortage company, you should show in your letters that you've cc the mortgage company on all your correspondance. Shake, rattle and roll.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
CA Civil Code and our CC&Rs permit us to suspend privileges, which include underground Visitor Parking, Swimming pool, Gym, Billiards Room, large meeting room, large lounge w/big screen TV & kitchen.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Some HOA docs (like ours) allow for suspension of privileges (to include Pool and Parking). All of our streets are private so spaces are assigned (not owned).


I find it hard to believe there are no parking spots on the deed. Assigned or not. Who would buy a house there if there is no deeded parking? If they are deeded, you cant suspend parking even if it is assigned.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 08/27/2012 8:44 AM
Some HOA docs (like ours) allow for suspension of privileges (to include Pool and Parking). All of our streets are private so spaces are assigned (not owned).


I find it hard to believe there are no parking spots on the deed. Assigned or not. Who would buy a house there if there is no deeded parking? If they are deeded, you cant suspend parking even if it is assigned.

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly (it IS Monday and the coffee hasn't kicked in!), but if there wasn't deeded parking, could you then suspend parking privileges? Right now, we have assigned parking on some of our lots (the other part of the community has street parking and a one-car garage) - since it appears the majority of our delinquent owners own or live in units with assigned parking, it would be great if we could suspend parking privileges in the lot (they probably could park on the street - one is city owned, but they'd be limited to one side)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Shelia that would be a question for your attorney as all states are different. We wanted to do the same thing but was told by are attorney it was a big no, no. Just like we can't turn off the water to delinquent units, yet the water company can shut you off if you don't pay your bill.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
but if there wasn't deeded parking, could you then suspend parking privileges?


Depends... on what your docs say, deeds, CCRs, etc. And even then, if a member sues your HOA because you took away his ability to park his car at his house and you dont have a rock solid case, the judge is not going to be happy with the HOA.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Steve - It's pretty common in our area for them to be assigned and not deeded (unless your perhaps dealing with a high rise condo in Arlington, Alex, or DC). When the developer starts out, it's usually just open parking and then about the time that the declarant walks away from the project, they generally just say... "you all develope a parking plan".. Sometimes it's two reserved, sometimes 1 reserved and the rest are open. This are spaces in an open lot and they are NOT underground spaces.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Steve - We've been using suspension (which is clearly stated in our docs) since 2004 and never had a problem with litigate. You cannot suspend someone with a disability (IE they have a Handicap tag) or disability as part of resonable accomodation. Our residents can park on one state maintained road that runs through our community. They might have to walk 200-300 yards, but it's not until their privileges are suspended, do they come forward and pay their assessments. It's must not that much of an inconvenience. They ignore all your letters and liens, but they do finally comply when there is a tow warning placed on their car.
MikeJ8 (Illinois)
Posts: 45
Posted:
There's nothing that mentions it in our restrictions. They use our parks & trails but don't pitch in a dime. Our attorney sends out the notices at $100 each every year and then another $100 to ad to the existing liens. Between dues, fines, late fees & legal we are up to several thousand $$$ now.

JohnC46 - does your collection firm do this with or without the HOA paying the up front legal costs? Having to payout the up front costs is what has held us back from proceeding with collection.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mike

The only cost to us is the $65.00 for the first letter from the attorney. The rest of the fees are paid by the owner to the attorney in addition to them still owing back HOA dues. We have never gone to a foreclosure.

This firm is a major firm with an entire real estate division that specializes in owners associations. I expect most of the work is handled by para-legals. It is not some starving small time lawyer that will bill high for everything.

Hope this helps.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Steve,

As for assigning parking spaces, it depends on the development. I live in a Town Home development (HOA not COA) and the parking area/roads are considered common area (and specified as such within the CC&Rs). The Board assigned two spaces per lot with the extras (which aren't many) being used on a first come first served basis.

Mike,

VA law, § 55-513, specifies that [emphasis added]:

The board of directors shall also have the power, to the extent the declaration or rules and regulations duly adopted pursuant thereto expressly so provide, to (i) suspend a member's right to use facilities or services, including utility services, provided directly through the association for nonpayment of assessments which are more than 60 days past due, to the extent that access to the lot through the common areas is not precluded and provided that such suspension shall not endanger the health, safety, or property of any owner, tenant, or occupant and (ii) assess charges against any member for any violation of the declaration or rules and regulations for which the member or his family members, tenants, guests, or other invitees are responsible.

Based on this statute, I'm surprised that your Association may prohibit the use of the parking area as that could prohibit access to the lot and an argument could be made that having to leave a vehicle (normally allowed to park within the complex) on the road can endanger the vehicle (property) as it's more likely to be broken into than one parked on the common area.

Tim
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I'm surprised that your Association may prohibit the use of the parking area


Just because an association does something, doesn't make it legal. Associations break laws everyday, it isn't until it comes before a judge does everyone realize the HOA had no right to do something.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Tim nobody said that we were restricting access to the lot. I don't where you got that from. It specifically talks about this in our docs.
The state maintained road where they can park goes right through the community. It's very short, well light with sidewalks on both sides. Residents can unload their passengers or cargo and then move to the State maintained road which is some case is 50 ft from the home and in some cases might be 200-30 yards from the home. No one is forced to walk an unreasonable distance and we abide by ADA/Reasonable accomodation laws.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Tim nobody said that we were restricting access to the lot. I don't where you got that from. It specifically talks about this in our docs.
The state maintained road where they can park goes right through the community. It's very short, well light with sidewalks on both sides. Residents can unload their passengers or cargo and then move to the State maintained road which is some case is 50 ft from the home and in some cases might be 200-30 yards from the home. No one is forced to walk an unreasonable distance and we abide by ADA/Reasonable accomodation laws.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Steve - Our bylaws and written collections policy were reviewed and written by a well known HOA attorney and we know that they will stand up in court on a good day. Yes, there is always that one Judge that has a certain affinity for HOAs, but ours is well run by a professional company and we try to fair to everyone and extend every opportunity to work with the homeowner.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
BTW Tim - Regaring Vehicle Breakins - They don't care where the car is anymore. They will break into cars that are 17 ft from the front door of the owner. Most of the breakins are crimes of opportunity where folks leave valuables in sight and even leave their doors open all the time. We have a very active Neighborhood Watch. We try to get folks to leave their porch light on, or leave them on a motion sensor. The police caught two perps in June and we just recently got vidoe footage on another perp that was breaking into cars. (still under investigation). You would be surprised to see how many residents now have cameras and oddly enough, a lot of the residents have them hidden. You would never know that they were there. Oh Well another subject gone off tangent.
My point is that the state maintained road is very short, well light and there is no difference in theft exposure when they park on this street.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/28/2012 8:47 AM
Steve - Our bylaws and written collections policy were reviewed and written by a well known HOA attorney and we know that they will stand up in court on a good day. Yes, there is always that one Judge that has a certain affinity for HOAs, but ours is well run by a professional company and we try to fair to everyone and extend every opportunity to work with the homeowner.

You know what I say about lawyers. In any court case, one wins and one looses. That means, statistically, lawyers are right only half the time. Not good odds in my book.

Of course, any lawyer believes his/her case will stand up in court. Otherwise, they wouldn't waste their time. Mind you, I'm not passing judgement on your HOA lawyer. I'm just saying no one has a crystal ball on the future. However, you are at least consulting a professional, and that's what I would want to do.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/28/2012 8:44 AM
Tim nobody said that we were restricting access to the lot. I don't where you got that from.

I got that from your other posts in this thread.

So you are not prohibiting them from parking in the lot and insisting that they park on the road?

MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
We are not insisting )per se_ that they park on the state maintained road that runs right through our community. They just cannot park in visitor or reserved spaces.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Bruce - I agree - Quite true. Usually right about the time that the suspension takes place, they usually man up and settle up on the assessments.

Also - Our original docs say that the "Association may, at the discretion of the board of Directors, paint over or cover the numbers on the reserve parking spaces(s) and the spaces(s) shall remain unreserved until such time as the lot lowner has paid the full amount of the delinquest assessments, internest, attorneys fees' and cost incurrred as a result of removal and repainting the reserved parking space(s). The Association may, at the discretinon of the Board of Directors, dirct that the suspended owner's vehicle be towed from Association property if it is found parked thereon after a suspension is imposed. Assess by the owner to his lot shall not be otherwise impaired. This remedy shall not be available if an owner is entitled to a handicapped parking space."

Before you say that this is coldhearted, believe me we try to work with the homeowner on payment plans if they inquire. Most of them ignore all the letters, but the mere fact that their researved parking space may be repainted and marked as "VISITOR" will send the owner to the bank.

We have only converted 4 spaces for two addresses that are long term foreclosures where no one resides in the home. There have been a lot of foreclosures and lately it seems that they can go on for several years. The four extra temporary spaces have provided a little parking relief. Yes, we'll convert them back whenever the foreclosing bank or new owner steps forward and pays their assessments (prorated from the foreclosure date - Not the date that the recorded the deed).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/28/2012 9:07 AM

They just cannot park in visitor or reserved spaces.

I believe that your Association may be splitting hairs and think that this would be a violation of the ingress/egress provision of the statute. However, as others have said, it only becomes an actual issue if the enforcement method is challenged in court. Until then, I suppose it's open for interpretation.

MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Let it be - That's why we have an attorney on retainer. I know of several other several other communities who are setup this way. Things are tight for everyone right no and it's just not right for other member's to carry the others. It's a business and should be run like one. Having been to a CAI collections seminar recently and knowing that we're in good company on this, we're ok with it.
MikeJ8 (Illinois)
Posts: 45
Posted:
Well isn't that something. A quick internet search turns up a few HOA collection agencies that don't charge anything like our attorney had indicated. Thanks!
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Our original docs say that the "Association may, at the discretion of the board of Directors, paint over or cover the numbers on the reserve parking spaces(s) and the spaces(s) shall remain unreserved until such time as the lot lowner has paid the full amount of the delinquest assessments, internest, attorneys fees' and cost incurrred as a result of removal and repainting the reserved parking space(s). The Association may, at the discretinon of the Board of Directors, dirct that the suspended owner's vehicle be towed from Association property if it is found parked thereon after a suspension is imposed. Assess by the owner to his lot shall not be otherwise impaired. This remedy shall not be available if an owner is entitled to a handicapped parking space."


Just because its in your docs, doesn't mean it will stand up in court. What I assume will be an issue the right to remove a parking spot that came with the unit. Although you can do what you want to do, I think you would loose a court case and the HOA would eat the attorney fees. Like I said, do whatever you want.

Quote:
I believe that your Association may be splitting hairs and think that this would be a violation of the ingress/egress provision of the statute. However, as others have said, it only becomes an actual issue if the enforcement method is challenged in court. Until then, I suppose it's open for interpretation.


I agree.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Steve - I guess this is where the laws vary so much from state to state. Since this is all clearly stated in the Virginia Property Association Act, I think that we are standing on pretty firm ground. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+55-513 See Item B.

55-513. Adoption and enforcement of rules.

A. Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the board of directors shall have the power to establish, adopt, and enforce rules and regulations with respect to use of the common areas and with respect to such other areas of responsibility assigned to the association by the declaration, except where expressly reserved by the declaration to the members. Rules and regulations may be adopted by resolution and shall be reasonably published or distributed throughout the development. A majority of votes cast, in person or by proxy, at a meeting convened in accordance with the provisions of the association's bylaws and called for that purpose, shall repeal or amend any rule or regulation adopted by the board of directors. Rules and regulations may be enforced by any method normally available to the owner of private property in Virginia, including, but not limited to, application for injunctive relief or damages, during which the court may award to the association court costs and reasonable attorney fees.

B. The board of directors shall also have the power, to the extent the declaration or rules and regulations duly adopted pursuant thereto expressly so provide, to (i) suspend a member's right to use facilities or services, including utility services, provided directly through the association for nonpayment of assessments which are more than 60 days past due, to the extent that access to the lot through the common areas is not precluded and provided that such suspension shall not endanger the health, safety, or property of any owner, tenant, or occupant and (ii) assess charges against any member for any violation of the declaration or rules and regulations for which the member or his family members, tenants, guests, or other invitees are responsible.

Before any such charges or suspension may be imposed, the member shall be given an opportunity to be heard and to be represented by counsel before the board of directors or other tribunal specified in the documents. Notice of a hearing, including the charges or other sanctions that may be imposed, shall be hand delivered or mailed by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, to the member at the address of record with the association at least 14 days prior to the hearing. Within seven days of the hearing, the hearing result shall be hand delivered or mailed by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, to the member at the address of record with the association.

The amount of any charges so assessed shall not be limited to the expense or damage to the association caused by the violation, but shall not exceed $50 for a single offense or $10 per day for any offense of a continuing nature and shall be treated as an assessment against the member's lot for the purposes of § 55-516. However, the total charges for any offense of a continuing nature shall not be assessed for a period exceeding 90 days.

After the date a lawsuit is filed in the general district or circuit court by (i) the association, by and through its counsel, to collect the charges, obtain injunctive relief and correct the violation or (ii) the lot owner challenging any such charges, no additional charges shall accrue. If the court rules in favor of the association, it shall be entitled to collect such charges from the date the action was filed as well as all other charges assessed pursuant to this section against the lot owner prior to the action. In addition, if the court finds that the violation remains uncorrected, the court may order the unit owner to abate or remedy the violation.

In any suit filed in general district court pursuant to this section, the court may enter default judgment against the lot owner on the association's sworn affidavit.

(1989, c. 679; 1991, c. 667; 1993, c. 956; 1994, c. 368; 1997, cc. 173, 417; 2000, cc. 846, 905; 2002, c. 509; 2008, cc. 851, 871; 2011, cc. 372, 378.)

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/29/2012 7:16 AM
Steve - I guess this is where the laws vary so much from state to state. Since this is all clearly stated in the Virginia Property Association Act, I think that we are standing on pretty firm ground.


Although your state laws allow you to make decisions, they dont allow you to break other laws, such as personal property laws. If the unit comes with a reserved parking spot, you cannot take it away. Just like you cannot take away their kitchen.

Another example, the HOA can make rules to not allow black people, but it would violate other laws so the HOA would loose in court.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Steve you must be used to condos and townhouses where the spaces are deeded. In Virginia it's more common to see assigned spaces as common area elements (owned by the association) and not deeded spaces.

We're have to agree that we disagree on this, however, this is clearly stated in our documents.

"The BOD has the power, pursuant to section xx of the Declaration to grant revocable license in the Common area by designated portions of the Common Area as Reserved Common Area. Yada Yada "Approval by the Board of the neighborhood Reserved Parking Plan shal not imply a transfer or conveyance of ownership of the parking areas, which are owned by the Association. Parking spaces assignments are not subject to conveyance by owners; however, upon the conveyance of the subject lot from one owner to another, the parking space or spaces assigned to the subject lot pursuant to a plan approved by the Board shall be remain in force and effect unless and until said plan is resceinded or modified by the Board".

Originally all spaces were open and just before the developer relinquished control they implemented the assigned 2 spaces plan.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Our documents state that we can suspend rights for nonpayment off dues. My first thought when I read this is "How can this be monitered." I never once thought of suspending parking privileges, but use of our common area laundry room. I knew I didn't want to sit in the laundry room to moniter the use to prevent owners who were behind in dues from using it.

Fortunately, most of our owners pay dues when due, even off site owners. We just have one "problem off site owner".
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
How can this be monitored? The parking spaces are marked as RVSD(Lot number),so it's easy to tell who owns what. Some communities have parking registrations, (stickers and hann tags). Our block captains pretty much know who drives what. It would be hard to do anything with the laundry room (I would think). You'd have to do this with keys or electronic key card systems like some of the big community pools use. If your owner is offsite (absentee owner), this this would affect the tenants. Their privileges would be suspended. Parking and Pool Privileges are the two easiest items to monitor.

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