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CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I am hired by my HOA (Pinetop, Arizona) to do raking of pine needles, water flower barrels, do light pruning with hand held clippers, and blow the parking lot. The tools I use are a rake, broom, hand clipper, blower. I do not use a ladder or step-ladder. I work about 15 hours per week and get $10 per hour. I have my own personal medical insurance (Medicare and AARP supplement). Do I need to have a license or permit for this work? Thank you for any advice on this subject.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Only if the HOA requires it. I for one would not hire someone that isn't licensed and insured...It's just a choice for the HOA to make. If they are alright with it then continue on...However, it's best for everyone to be insured and licensed if you are considered a business and NOT a volunteer.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Candace,

One of the toughest questions to answer is whether a person is a contractor or employee.

The fact that you are paid by the hour rather than by the job indicates (to me, anyway) that you are an employee and not a contractor. If the association withholds any taxes or social security and issues a W2 at year-end, then you are likely an employee. If you do not advertise or otherwise seek to offer your services to others, then you are probably an employee. If the association controls when you do the work or how you do the work, then you are probably an employee.

Even though the kind of work you are performing could require a contractor's license under some circumstances, you are likely performing this work as an employee of the association. Employees are not required to hold a contractor's license in Arizona. Even if you performed this work for someone who had a contractor's license, you as his employee would not need to have a license.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
BTW, the association can choose to hire a licensed contractor if they wish. Most contractors charge five to ten times what you are being paid due to the overhead of operating a business.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Hi Candace,

Welcome to the forum.

Let me ask you a simple question: If, while blowing the parking lot, a rock damages a vehicle who pays for the damage (you or the Association)?

If the answer is the Association - it's likely the IRS would consider you an employee vs. an independent contractor.
If the answer is you - will you homeowners insurance cover it? If not, then you need insurance.

On a side note, based on the numbers you provided:

15 hr/wk @ $10/hr = $150 per wk

If working all year: $150/wk for 52 weeks = $7,800
If working only 4 months: $150/wk for 12 weeks = $1,800

Are you receiving a 1099-misc from the Association each year (as required by the IRS)?
CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I receive a misc 1099, so I guess that makes me an independent contractor.

So, yes, I would pay for the damage done to the car.

I work during the summer. Last year I made approx (don't have my tax files with me) $1,600.

As an Independent Contractor, do I have to be licensed for this type of work? Does using the blower put me into a different category re licensing?

I have my own medical insurance and the HOA carries Liability Insurance. If I was hurt on the job, I would use my own insurance and not file a claim against the HOA.

One of the HO's here is hasseling me about these issues (in retaliation for me denying approval on an Arch change). He says I am putting the HOA at risk for a potential lawsuit if I was injured and that I should be licensed. But, even if I did not have insurance to cover my own medial bills and put a claim in against the HOA, how would that be any different if he tripped and broke his leg on his way to the mail box?

I am very grateful for your insight and further advice. Candace

CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you for clarifying the difference between employee and Independent Contractor. That has spurred me to further research. I do receive a misc 1099, and will from this time on make sure I am paid by the job and not by hour. So, now my question is, "as an Independent Contractor", do I need a license? If using the blower (power tools) makes a difference, I can refrain from using it. Thank you for helping me with the questions. Candace
CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you your speedy reply. It's always best to be safe than sorry so I think your advice is good to ponder. I just might have to turn in my rake and watering can, but will wait to see what others have to say. If anything else comes to mind on this topic, I am "all ears". Thank you again, Candace
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
In general, if the State, County or Town requires landscape contractors to be licensed, then yes.
If there is no licensing requirement, then no.

For AZ, it appears to depend on on the city.

AZ Commerce Authority specifies A lawn care/maintenance business which only performs lawn, garden, shrub and tree maintenance is considered a direct customer service activity and may be subject to city/town/county licensing and compliances

Here is a link to Arizona Commerce Authority's Licensing and Taxes Frequently Asked Questions page.

Per that page, you would technically require a Business/Occupational License as The Town of Pinetop-Lakeside requires any business based and/or operating within their city limits to obtain their business license.

See Pinetop-Lakeside licensing requirements for the application.

You may want to consult with a local attorney or tax professional for further information.

Here are additional links that may prove useful:

IRS Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

AZ Department of Revenue Licensing and Taxes page

Hope this helps,

Tim

CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you. Looks like I have more homework, but you have certainly made it easier. I will post my findings. Candace
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I went back and clicked on the links and it appears that most of them default to the main page. Sorry about that. it's how that site is set up. However, if you click on Pinetop-Lakeside on that page you will be taken to another page that has the requirement and a link to the application.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
Keeping in mind that laws, etc. differ between States –

We (Condominium Association) require that anyone who does any work for us, provide us (prior to the start of work) with a ā€œCertificate of Liability Insuranceā€ which shows at a minimum the limits (amount) of ā€œCommercial General Liability Insuranceā€ that the Contractor carries.

We also stipulate that the ā€œCertificate Holderā€ block is filled in with (contains) the ā€œofficialā€ name and address of the Association.

The Insurance Agency (Producer) sends, Mails, the Certificate directly to us (Condo Association) by US Mail and/or by email PDF attachment, using the information provided in the named Certificate Holder ā€œblockā€.

Also, FYI, whenever our property ā€œis inspectedā€ in conjunction with renewing our Condominium Master Insurance Policy, one of the questions we are always asked by the Insurance Inspector is, ā€œdo we have our contractors/sub contractors provide us with their ā€œInsurance Certificatesā€.
CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you very much. Whew! All of this over a little old lady trying to keep in shape and out of mischief over the summer!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Candace,

After reading your replies I would conclude that the association regards you as an independent contractor.

Do you need a contractor's license for the landscape work you do? Probably not as the work you are doing is more along the lines of janitorial work. If you were digging up yards to install sprinkler systems or doing something more construction-like then you might need a contractor's license.

Do you need a business license? Probably not as you have no business location and you are not offering goods or services to the general public.

I think that you are in a bad situation. The HOA is paying you employee-type wages without providing those things that an employer is required to. If they were your employer, they would be contributing to your SSA taxes, provide Workman's Compensation Insurance, and assume the liability for your mistakes. No experienced contractor, licensed or not, would take on the job you are doing at the price that your HOA is paying you.

The easiest solution is for the HOA to hire you as a part-time employee. It will cost them a few more bucks for the administrative costs, but it will allow them to continue paying you at your rate. To make your case to the HOA, get a few written estimates from licensed contractors for the work that you are doing now.
CandaceV (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you for your suggestions. Everyone has been very helpful and in such a timely manner. I hope I can help you out sometime. Candace
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CandaceV on 08/25/2012 11:53 AM
Thank you very much. Whew! All of this over a little old lady trying to keep in shape and out of mischief over the summer!

Candace

Were I you I would ignore all this "advice" and keep doing it as you have been doing.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Darn, John! I'm in total agreement w/ you on yet another thread.

Candace - Just keep trucking with your part-time paid job if it's a nice activity and outlet to make some cash. The IRS is duly reported to in regards to your work.

The bridge the divide in the comments, it would be a nice touch to ask the HOA to cover you with some liability insurance at its expense since you're working dirt-cheap as it is. They'd still come out ahead and protection would be in place in the unlikely event of an accident. However, this is your agreement.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Ah, if life were only that simple. Although the IRS has specific tests to determine whether a person is a contractor (self-employed) or employer, the IRS also states that making that determination is not always easy, and each situation may be different. A person may be a contractor in one case, but an employee in another. Sometimes it's only one little fact that can make the difference.

But, the IRS does make it easy. The IRS will make that determination for you if you wish. All you have to do is file Form SS-8, "Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding" and after about six months or more, the IRS will let you know whether it thinks you are an employee or a contractor. The form can be completed and sent in either by the firm hiring the person, or by the worker.

So what if a person has been incorrectly classified as a contractor instead of an employee? As long as the "contractor" (employee) has been properly paying income and self-employment taxes, probably nothing will happen to the employee. The firm that hired the employee and provided a 1099-MISC instead of a W-2 will probably be held liable for back Social Security, and Medicare taxes in addition to back worker's compensation and unemployment taxes, plus interest and penalties.

Although I work for an accounting firm preparing tax returns, I usually don't have to make such a determination. I just prepare the returns using whatever forms (W-2, 1099-MISC) the client gives me.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Candace, just keep doing what your doing. Its likely if you bring up all these things everyone else is talking about, the HOA will just let you go and hire someone else. If you like the job and the money, keep doing what your doing.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Candice,

Since you asked questions, I provided what I believe to be correct answers to your questions.

Since you're receiving a 1099-misc, the only IRS issues would be for the Association and not you. That is also only if the IRS audits you or the Association and makes the determination that you are an employee. Realistically, that's not likely to happen.

As for your initial question about insurance, you could cross that bridge when and if you come to it. If concerned, you could pose the question to your insurance carrier.

If I were you, I would do as Steve, Kelly and John suggest. The decision is yours to make but at least you have the information to make an informed decision.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/28/2012 9:09 AM
Realistically, that's not likely to happen

Don't bet on it.

Let me put it this way. I've been an employer, I've hired employees, I've hired contractors. I've been self-employed and worked out of my home and out of a store-front. I've issued W-2s, 1099-MISCs, paid self-employment taxes, paid employment taxes, unemployment insurance and worker's compensation insurance. I am presently a trained professional tax preparer. I've seen Medicare deny claims for medical care (for my wife) because of third-party responsibility (automobile and work-related accidents). I can speak from experience because I've been there, done that.

Now, If I were Candace, I would probably do exactly as many have suggested and continue working my part-time job doing light landscaping. Chances are, nothing will ever go wrong. However, it should be understood that doing so is not completely without risk. No matter how small, the risk is not zero. Some of the risk is Candace's, and some of the risk is the association's.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
By the way, the answer to the insurance question is easy. If you're not paying the premium to cover the risk associated with a particular activity, chances are that activity is not covered. The "perils insured against" portion of your policy states all the things that are covered, and the "Exclusions" portion of your policy are all the excuses the insurance company will use to get out of paying.

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