Proxy Language

Started by LisaF6 • 16 replies • 2914 views

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LisaF6 (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Does anyone have a good proxy we could use for our annual meeting? We are looking for something that allows the homeowner to indicate who they DO NOT want their vote to be cast for.

Any help is appreciated.

Lisa

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This isn't American Idol. It's less complicated and doesn't bring personal opinion by only allowing voting FOR. The voting process outside of a reality show is to represent who we want to represent us. It is not to vote for who I don't want to. That is a given as they did not get my vote.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lisa

To the best of my knowledge there are two type Proxies:

GENERAL POWERS
Allows the Proxy holder to vote as they want to vote on any ballot question or for anyone.

LIMITED POWERS
Directs the Proxy holder to vote in a specific way on any ballot question or for specific named people.

I am not sure one could say you CANNOT vote for SO and SO. If for no other reason, then how would one count the vote? Think about it. Same as in any election. You are allowed to vote for someone, but not against someone.

Hope this helps.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

I vote for salt (la sal) on the rim of our Margaritas...as in plural...more then one...LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

My vote is against salt on the rim...LOL!

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Lisa,

There are general proxies (allowing the representative to vote how ever they wish) and directed proxies (instructing the representative to cast a vote a specific way).

I like Directed proxies as this truly represents how the member wants things to happen and keeps a rouge representative from controlling every vote.

I've attached both versions.

hope it helps,

Tim

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LisaF6 (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I deserved the responses I received. To provide more details, we have a board president that has a few friends go around and collect proxys. The homeowners are led to believe they are giving their vote to the person at their door when infact the proxy is voted by the board president. We just want to make sure that the proxy is clear on WHO will be casting the votes. In past instances, the people collecting the proxy do not attend the election so it is not a concern that they would vote the way the president requested.
I will pass both types of proxys on to the members of the board.

Thank you for all your help and patience
Lisa

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LisaF6 on 08/15/2012 3:58 PM

We just want to make sure that the proxy is clear on WHO will be casting the votes.

Use the Directed proxy (which is almost like a ballot). This way, it won't matter who the proxy holder is as they are directed to cast the votes a specific way.

My Association will go one step further with directed proxies and have the proxy holder fill out the ballot in front of an election official so it can be verified that the proxy matches the ballot. This isn't a requirement but it's something the Board feels is owed to the member.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lisa

A few things:

A Proxy holder may hold more then one proxy. They might could hold say 100 if they got 100 to sign their proxies over to them.

A later Proxy can override an earlier Proxy. I sign one on Sept 1 but then I sign a different one on Sept 2, the Sept 2 Proxy overrides the Sept 1 Proxy. One reason for having an election committee verfying elligable voters.

Every Covenant or Bylaw I have seen changed was controlled by Proxies, not by people attending and voting.

Most BOD elections I have seen were controlled via Proxies.

Hope this helps.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 08/15/2012 6:59 AM
Lisa,

There are general proxies (allowing the representative to vote how ever they wish) and directed proxies (instructing the representative to cast a vote a specific way).

I like Directed proxies as this truly represents how the member wants things to happen and keeps a rouge representative from controlling every vote.

I've attached both versions.

hope it helps,

Tim

Tim

Thanks.

I have seen General and Directed Proxies on one page with a check box as to which was being assigned. It can get crowded but it can also let the person know they can assign it either way.

As we have seen out here, part of Proxy trickery is for a BOD to send to send out a Proxy thus tricking people into thinking it is a ballot of some kind so they return it and the BOD stays in.

Of course one would have to not read close and understand, but it can be an effective trick with the elderly, inexperienced, and not well educated voters.

LisaF6 (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

The uneducated homeowners are being tricked by one board memeber repeatetly. I am hoping we can end that next month. I personally have spent a good amount of time trying to inform as many as I can.

We are waiting till very close to the election to gather proxys as we have had some experiences with homeowners signing more than one proxy.

One obstacal we have is getting nomonies (not sure I have the spelling correct)in advance as most come from the floor at the meeting.

I can't wait till the election is over next month.

LisaF6 (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

BjS (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Just answered a similar question (see Proxy Votes). What I would be careful of is how your docs are worded. Ours was worded so that the proxy holder was allowed to cast the vote change. So our lawyer required us to use a general proxy and it is awful.

We are in the process of amending and changing to a secret ballot as allowed under Florida FS 720.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LisaF6 on 08/16/2012 6:11 AM
The uneducated homeowners are being tricked by one board memeber repeatetly. I am hoping we can end that next month. I personally have spent a good amount of time trying to inform as many as I can.

We are waiting till very close to the election to gather proxys as we have had some experiences with homeowners signing more than one proxy.

One obstacal we have is getting nomonies (not sure I have the spelling correct)in advance as most come from the floor at the meeting.

I can't wait till the election is over next month.

I believe one can be outfoxed no matter the voting method plus uneducated voters are still uneducated voters no matter the voting method.

How many public voting ballot questions have you seen that if you did not read it carefully, your Yes vote meant No when you thought your Yes vote was in favor of something?

Stupid is as stupid does.

I also believe without proxies most attempts at quorums and/or a majority will fail. I have rarely (I want to say never but playing it safe) seen an election won nor a Covenant/Bylaw changed without proxy votes.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

And as I've replied to you, John. Gov. documents do get changed in Calif. because absentee ballots are permitted to count towards a quorum of owners. All ballots are secret as in our wider society so that voters cannot be pressured or threatened. In addition fraud in HOAs is reduced when there is no proxy voting.

LisaF6 (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Do we have the use the proxy the management company sends out or can we use one of our choice? I am guessing the BOD will instruct the management company to send out a general proxy as that provides the best chance of the entire board remaining. I would like to use a directive proxy that will list the names for voting.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lisa

Do you have to use "their" proxy? No you do not have to.

The BOD sending out a proxy in their favor is often the way they stay in power.

The latest dated proxy is the one used. If I sign a proxy on June 5 and later sign another on June 10, the June 10 one counts, not the June 5 one. It will be upto the vote registration/authorization, whatever to figure out the difference and/or the correct one come register to vote time like at the time of the meeting. I have seen some great "debates" about this prior to the meeting. Often this is the the time one needs to stand their ground and maybe even have legal representationas the "bullies" often win.

Now having the resources to send out and/or obtain the latest, up to date, valid proxy and get it counted can be a very, very tricky situation.

One discussion earlier on here was about General versus Directed Proxy. If proxies are allowed rareley will it say General or Directed. It will just say proxies are allowed or not allowed.

Swimming against the tide can be done...but it is not easy.

Hope this helps.

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