💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BonnieB1 (Texas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I was curious as to whether covenants that have not been updated since 1961 are still valid? There has been no board for about 15 years and only a president for 7. Nothing has been tried to been enforced until recently. It is my understanding with the covenants that they need to be updated in order to be even valid. There is an article in there that states" after January 1, 1975, the covenants herein contained shall continue to be in force and effect for successive periods of ten years each, or until a vote of 60% of the then property owners shall determine that such covenants shall be altered or removed."
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Bonnie, they are valid.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Bonnie,

There are at least two issues here: 1) are the CC&R's still in effect, and 2) do you still have an association?

The first question is the easier one and it sounds like the restrictions are still there until 60% of the owners decide to terminate them.

The question about your association may be more difficult. Since your association has been dormant for so long, it is possible that the state has administratively dissolved your corporation. If that is the case, then you may have deed restrictions but no association to enforce them. You should check with the state to be sure that your association is still "alive."
BonnieB1 (Texas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I'm not sure. I don't even know how to begin to check. I know the last covenant was updated in 1961 and they had a meeting last night that the only reason we found out there was a meeting was we happened to talk to the neighbors who received a letter in the mail (which we did not) and set up a board by the craziest election I have ever seen they nominated by saying who wants to be in the board raise your hand. Then they said these covenants are to be followed which no one had a copy of and some people had different copies of. I have no idea what is going on!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieB1 on 08/10/2012 10:12 PM
I have no idea what is going on!

It sounds to me like the people who attended the meeting don't either.

There's a lot of legal stuff involving an HOA. If your HOA has been dormant for a long time, chances are everything has fallen by the wayside.

You may have to be incorporated. You will need a registered agent. You will need to file tax returns. You will need insurance. The list goes on.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
BonnieB, I suggest you start with your County Clerk's office. Request a copy of the Covenants and all amendments to the Covenants. These documents define the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions which apply to Also get a Plat which will define the specific units for which these Covenants apply.

As far as restarting the homeowners association, try to find a copy of the latest Bylaws. Bylaws define the procedures for an HOA. The HOA may have been incorporated in the past and have Bylaws which were filed with the Secretary of State. However, HOAs do not necessarily have to be incorporated but most are or have been. If no Bylaws are found then the owners can organize an HOA. The first step would be to elect a temporary Chairperson and form a committee to draft Bylaws. Then have a duly called meeting which notifies all owners that the agenda will include approval of the Bylaws and election of Board members.

I presume the Covenatants will allow any owner to bring action against violations to the Restrictions. If so I think the HOA can also take on that responsibility.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
......it is possible that the state has administratively dissolved your corporation. If that is the case, then you may have deed restrictions but no association to enforce them.


In a situation like this, someone can restart the association just as you described. Vote in officers, done. Its that simple. So yes, its possible your association has been restarted. The best you can do is find out if the association did in fact alter or remove the CCRs waaay back when. Chances are, they didn't. Clerk of courts, registry of deeds, if the paperwork wasn't formally filed, ask the former HOA president, secretary, etc from the 1960's. If you find nothing, do a title search on every home in the association and go back to the 1960's. Someone at sometime may have filed the paperwork and attached it to their deed or name.

Yes, this will take allot of time to figure out.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
In my state there could be a big problem.

In AZ, a corporation that fails to file its annual reports will be administratively dissolved. The corporation may be reinstated for up to six years after the administrative dissolution. After that time, one has to form a new corporation.

For the HOA in this case, the CC&R's should state that each property owner will become a member of the XYZ Homeowners Association. I am assuming that back in 1961 the developer had actually incorporated such an association. The HOA operated for the next 35 years or so, but the homeowners lost interest in having an association and abandoned it. If this were in AZ, the state would have dissolved the association around 1996 and permanently dissolved it around 2002.

Fast forward to the present. A homeowner decides he wishes to resurrect an association, holds a meeting, elects a board, files articles of incorporation.

Is this the association that you agreed to be a member of? Can you be compelled to be a member of the XYZ Homeowners Association Ver. 2.0 because you agreed to be a member of an earlier association that was dissolved?

I do not have an answer for this question but I sure would find out before I allowed somebody proclaim that he now controls my property.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Two separate issues. One issue is the association, the other is deed restrictions.

An association can dissolve or stop, but you still have deeds restrictions and CCR's on your home deed. Which are still valid and are typically forever. Its quite allot of work to get them removed.

Who enforces deed restrictions? The HOA.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 08/11/2012 8:12 AM

I presume the Covenatants will allow any owner to bring action against violations to the Restrictions. If so I think the HOA can also take on that responsibility.

I would disagree. A corporation is a different entity than an owner. If the C+Rs say an owner or the association can bring action against another homeowner only then I would say the HOA could act.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 08/12/2012 4:40 AM

Who enforces deed restrictions? The HOA.

Actually - A member/owner and the Association are given authority to enforce the deed restrictions.

The member/owner and the Association are not required to enforce the deed restrictions but may if they so desire.

The difference is that a member may typically go after only one violator but the Association needs to go after all violators of the same restriction or face the issue of selective enforcement (which only means that the enforcement may or may not be tossed out if challenged in a court).

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 08/12/2012 6:29 AM
Posted By RogerB on 08/11/2012 8:12 AM

I presume the Covenatants will allow any owner to bring action against violations to the Restrictions. If so I think the HOA can also take on that responsibility.


I would disagree. A corporation is a different entity than an owner. If the C+Rs say an owner or the association can bring action against another homeowner only then I would say the HOA could act.

KevinK7, I agree that it would be best to state the association's powers in the CC&Rs but consider these points:
1)there is no active HOA thus presumptively the Covenants have no manditory assessment and may not have the associations powers stated in the CC&Rs;

2) this does not preclude the homeowners who chose from creating a voluntary HOA with one objectives being compliance with the Restrictions stated in the Covenants; and

3) the voluntary HOA can create more manpower for monitoring for Covenant Compliance and generate more funds when legal action is required as compared to a single owner.

Covenant enforcement has nothing to do with whether or not the HOA choses to incorporate.
An HOA may or may not chose to be a not-for-profit Corporation to gain advantages provided. Such as having a protective "corporate shield" for the officers and tax advantages provided.

FYI, one of the HOAs we manage happens to be a voluntary HOA and our primary responsibility is enforcement of the Covenants.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 08/12/2012 4:40 AM
Two separate issues. One issue is the association, the other is deed restrictions.

An association can dissolve or stop, but you still have deeds restrictions and CCR's on your home deed. Which are still valid and are typically forever. Its quite allot of work to get them removed.

Who enforces deed restrictions? The HOA.


Steve:

These are, in fact two separate issues. The CC&R's run until the owners remove them.

I am assuming that the CC&R's require that the owners be members of an incorporated association, as this is a common provision. The incorporated association should have been formed by the developer before he sold any lots.

The corporation is subject to the laws of the state where it was incorporated. If the owners allow the corporation to be dissolved then state law will determine whether it can be reinstated and whether there are any limits on when that may happen. In my state, that time limit is six years. I do not know if there are similar limits in Texas.

Let's say you and I own property in a development where the association has been permanently dissolved. I decide to restart the association and file articles of incorporation under the same name as the old association. Where do I get the right to force you to be a member of my association, which did not exist when you purchased your property?

"Who enforces deed restrictions?" The owners. Where I currently live we have CC&R's but no association. If someone wants to enforce the deed restrictions they have the right to do so through the courts.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Let's say you and I own property in a development where the association has been permanently dissolved. I decide to restart the association and file articles of incorporation under the same name as the old association. Where do I get the right to force you to be a member of my association, which did not exist when you purchased your property?


I've personally never seen CCR's removed from any property, although I've seen many "temporarily dissolved". Typically no hoa is permanently dissolved unless the CCR's are also removed. Legally.

Usually CCR's exist because there is common property that cannot be separated, thus the need for an association or CCRs. Many people are never forced to join a HOA. If you buy a property in a community with CCR's that require dues, you are automatically a member. There is no "joining" But alas, it really depends on how your CCR's are written and every CCR is unique.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here