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MonaJ (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
We have 275 homes in Central Florida and have the misfortune of an unexperienced board.
1)In a newsletter placed on the front porch of approx. half of the homes, in small print they mention a special assessment ($200.00 per house) coming up to install cameras at the entry gates. Our docs state that a 2/3 vote for any special assessment is needed.........no vote has been presented. For that matter no meetings to even discuss this topic.
2)No meetings have taken place since last August. Annual meeting was to be held in January, board has decided to have it in March or April. In January, the two board member's terms were up and the developer's rep. was to step aside (which he did) thus making 3 positions open on the board. The board instead decided to add three additional positions which they handpicked. We now have five board members (which includes the original two) who all share the same opinion thus the ability to railroad anything and everything through. What options do we have? (Other than moving?)
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
MonaJ------ If you are an HOA located in the great State of Florida you NEED to go read Chapter 720 of the Fla State Statues....... go to www.myflorida.com --- I find it easier to print the entire chapter -30 pages--- so you can hold them in your hand and read them----have a highlighter available so you can mark the pertinent sections of the Chapter to show and or discuss with your BOD......Sometimes if they are "newbies" they may actually and unintentinally be clueless as to the proper procedure with regards to "special assessments" .... The one most important thing I have learned from participating in this forum is ----It's best to be a "proactive" member and learn to contribute to the whole of your HOA ,instead of butting horns with them......Happy Reading and if there is something you are not clear on let us know and let's see if we can walk you thru the maze.....Linda C
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
I went through a similar situation. However, our HOA's special assessment was done illegally and by a "Newbie" board. I was forced to gather a group of homeowners to present to the board the rules about voting on a special assessment and the steps in doing so. The board was forced eventually into following the rules when me and the small group of owners hired an attorney to write them a letter.
Reading laws and printing them out is all fine and dandy. However, ONLY lawyers are allowed/paid to "interpret" the laws. Your board isn't going to understand ANY of the legal speak you may throw at them. These people are like you and me! They are volunteers or people interested in their neighborhood. Would you understand what to do if I came up to you and quoted "Florida Law statute XX.XXX of the county of States xxx etc..."? Probably not. So why expect inexperienced board members to?
Simply go to the meeting and present the section of which the assessment procedure is discussed. Then everyone have an open discussion about how to do it. If things go right, the board will take the vote the correct way and voting will convene. Encourage other members to attend and be involved with the decision. Be it for or against. Don't force your opinion on anyone. Let nature take it's course no matter how it may go against your opinion.
Unfornately for my group, the HOA did lie and cheat it's way into getting the special assessment approved the right way. I was forced to agree with the decision in the end. However, a few months later, many people caught on to the fact the HOA had lied to them and were highly disapointed.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By LanceT on 02/09/2007 3:52 PM
ONLY lawyers are allowed/paid to "interpret" the laws.

Whaaa
Lawyers are paid for their opinions; but they are not the only people allowed to interpret the laws.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Roger is right! Our documents give the board the right to "interpret" them. Better read yours too. Why pay for a lawyer when you can get interpretatons for free? LOL. Harold
MonaJ (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Harold, I'm not sure I understand your post. I have read and re-read the documents. I have also been on 4 previous boards and have never tried to nor seen any others operate like these "kids" are. They really need to read the docs!
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Just to clear up something. The board can "interpret" the rules and regulations of the HOA but NOT the laws of the state or city. The laws of the HOA are the responsibility and created by the HOA and open for interpretation to HOA members. However, laws such as state, local, or federal typically need an attorney to intrepret their meaning.
So I am NOT saying that a board can't interpret laws, it just should be their laws. ;)
As a former President/former board member. If someone had come up to me quoting some "law" statute, I would look at them funny. If they came up to me on our bylaws/CC&R's we might get somewhere.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
LanceT:
In your sharing, would you kindly not be so negative and finger-pointing to boards and board members. We realize you are a recovering HOA president (?) but your continued attitude is somewhat hard to take.
You would be more helpful if in your posts you would present positive solutions without the accompanying harsh
attitude. Thank you.
PaulM
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
MonaJ:
It sounds like your board is creating a lot of havoc and unrest due to lack of communication with the residents. Unfortunately, this is a common problem and the most difficult for boards to realize that communication is key.
If your covenant document states processes to follow on
assessments and meetings and this board is not adhering to that, obviously they need to be questioned. A new board could obviously do things incorrectly due to inexperience, but a board acting as a dictator is another issue. It is best to 'remind' the board of the covenant wording and question them on why they are not following the process.
Questions for you:
1. Did the developer officially turn over 'his authority' to the association residents on a certain date?
2. Did the association (residents/owners) contract with a manager at that time or are you self-managed?
3. If no manager, you may need to get an experienced one quick to bring your assn. in line with your covenant requirements.

The manager is paid by the assn. out of monthly fees. A good manager will be sensitive in working with board members and ensuring that community documents are followed.

Give us more information so this forum can be of assistance in your dilemma.
PaulM

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
The board can "interpret" the rules and regulations of the HOA but NOT the laws of the state or city. PER LANCET

Am I living in a dark room somewhere ......Was there a law passed that stated the above????? In Florida All HOA'S must abide by the Statutes unless the "governing " documents addresses something different per that section of the Statute....I would have to say that all the wording in Statute is pretty cut and dry and very easy to understand...Doesn't take a LEGAL BRAIN to read and understand the words......In fact most HOA doucements are worded so that you sometimes need a LEGAL BRAIN to understand them because of all the double talk ....We are not talking criminal law here LAnce where we are on trial for murder-- we are talking about rules and regs that govern the place where we choose to call home ....some of them are complicated while others are simplistic in nature.

I am sorry that you got beat up while serving as an HOA BOD but as Paul stated earlier -- stop being so negative about it--- If it's over- it's over---Move forward....The HOA Talk forum was and is intended to lend a helping hand to those in need of all our assistance....Breeding contempt and negativity is not welcome here...Try to read and understand each post as if you were in their shoes and lend some support to them in their of need...And as always this is just my humble opinion...Linda C...HOA TALK FORUM ROCKS......
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Excuse me? Negative attitude? It's called being a "realist". I have dealt with the "best" of boards and I have suffered from the "worst". Each situation is DIFFERENT from eachother.
Let's face it, living in a HOA isn't all puppies and sunshine. I am NOT going to give "positive" advice to EVERY situation. Sometimes it's just NOT positive and work has to be done.
I give advice as honest and as frank as I can. Yes, it may come across "negative" to some, but it's the truth. Like it or not.

I really enjoyed being the President of my HOA. It was interesting and never the same thing every day. My neighbors often brought me food when I was sick (No poison in it!) or walked my dogs while I was at work. The kids even got to form their own "board" and I would take their opinions to the meetings with me. It was NOT easy considering I was going to college, working 1 40 hour job and 1 part time job while being president.
However, when I left the neighborhood. The "New" board ruined everything that was created. One board member even physically attacked me and chased me out of a meeting. They forced an illegal special assessment on the members.
So I can sympathize with BOTH the people here who love their HOA and support it. I can also understand how it feels when things go wrong. So sorry if you think my advice is "negative" but like I stated before... It ain't all puppies and sunshine!

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
MonaJ---- Below is taken directly from the Statutes in Florida Chapter 720....Coupled with the statement you provided that you By Laws state that a 2/3 vote is required you do not state whether the 2/3 vote is one required of the Board of Directors or a 2/3 vote of the Membership...Could you please clarify that point ....Our Bylaws state a 2/3 vote of the Board present at a duly noticed meeting.

With regards to your not having an annual members meeting in January -- was one even scheduled or was it cancelled for not having a quorum ??? It may help if you posted your bylaws--REMOVE THE NAME OF YOUR ASSOCIATION----so all of us could have a clearer understanding of your present situation..Hope this helps LindaC

2. An assessment may not be levied at a board meeting unless a written notice of the meeting is provided to all members at least 14 days before the meeting, which notice includes a statement that assessments will be considered at the meeting and the nature of the assessments. Written notice of any meeting at which special assessments will be considered or at which rules that regulate the use of parcels in the community may be adopted, amended, or revoked must be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the members and parcel owners and posted conspicuously on the property or broadcast on closed-circuit cable television not less than 14 days before the meeting. A written notice concerning changes to the rules that regulate the use of parcels in the community must include a statement that changes to the rules regarding the use of parcels will be considered at the meeting.

Note.--Former s. 617.303.

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
Posted By LanceT on 02/10/2007 1:21 AM

Just to clear up something. The board can "interpret" the rules and regulations of the HOA but NOT the laws of the state or city. The laws of the HOA are the responsibility and created by the HOA and open for interpretation to HOA members. However, laws such as state, local, or federal typically need an attorney to intrepret their meaning.
So I am NOT saying that a board can't interpret laws, it just should be their laws. ;)
As a former President/former board member. If someone had come up to me quoting some "law" statute, I would look at them funny. If they came up to me on our bylaws/CC&R's we might get somewhere.


I would respectfully disagree that we cannot interpret the laws of the state. Most of them are pretty easy to understand, and some are written in plain language.

If we had to go to an attorney to have every law interpreted then it would cost the HOA a fortune.

Take this law quoted from AZ 33-1804 for example:

"Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws or other documents to the contraary, all meetings of the association and board of directors are open to all members of the association or any person designated by a member in writing as the member's representative and all members or designated representatives so desiring shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time during the deliberations and proceedings.

The board may place reasonable time restrictions on those persons speaking during the meeting but shall permit a member or member's designated representative to speak before the board takes formal action on an item under discussion in addition to any other opportunities to speak. The board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of an issue. Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if the closed prtion of the meeting is limited to considerationofone or more of the following:"

This, along with most of the AZ planned community statutes is very easy to intepret and it would be a waste of money for our HOA to go and have an attorney interpret it for us.

Interpretations:
If a person comes to a meeting claiming to be a representative of a homeowner who is not present, and this person has not presented to the board a document signed by the owner authorizing the person to speak on his/her behalf, then that person will be denied permission to speak.

If an owner comes to the meeting with a representative, and both want to speak, permission may be denied, as the law states that the representative OR the member may speak.

After the board debates an issue, and before voting, the members must be given an opportunity to speak on that issue.

The members must also have another time set aside to be able to speak on issues important to them. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on them. If there are many people to speak on the same subject, the board may limit the number of members, in a reasonable manner, to speak on the subject.

All of the board meetings must be open to all members, with the exception of when the board elects to go into closed session to discuss items specifically mentioned in the next paragraphs in that law.

I agree that there may be some laws that are difficult to understand, or seem to have gray areas, and in that case the board should make an effort to clarify those. This can be done at HOA classes dealing with HOA law, or by consulting an attorney. But usually, by reading the laws and relating them to other laws, and to the documents to which they refer, and thoroughly studying them, a person of average intelligence can come up with a good interpretation.

Note that many attorneys come up with different interpretations of the same law. Is that intentional, so they can make money going to court, or are they just not smart enough to interpret them correctly. Judges are the final interpreter of the law, and many times they interpret it different from both attorneys, and new case law is born.

Still I don't think it requires a rocket scientist or an attorney to understand most laws that affect planned communities, and that includes the NonProfit Corporation laws.

I'm not advocating leaving the attorneys out of the picture when they are needed for advice.

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