💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Yup, I a noob....a sucker who volunteered to serve on the board of my HOA. I was asked by several homeowners so what's a fella to do. Now I find myself in a position of trying to shake off noob status. Anyhow, here's my question:

Seems that when I do a search on the topic of "No Quorum for HOA Meeting" I get a zillion responses that have to do with the ANNUAL HOA MEETING. That is, the one where new board members are elected. I understand that in general for the vast majority of us that if there is no quorum you can not legally conduct business. However, my question is specific to REGULAR meetings of the board. You know, the ones that are announced and homeowners are welcome and encouraged to attend. At one of these types of meeting I would assume that the same holds true? That is, NO QUORUM then NO BUSINESS TO BE CONDUCTED. If that is true then how does one go about making decisions on behalf of homeowners? Let's say you, as a board member, move to allow a new expediture of $20 for a new website for the HOA. Does this mean that NO QUORUM then you can't do this?

Help the noob...or shoot me for volunteering! ;-)
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
David - this should be in your by-laws. Under our By-Laws under Quorum it states: At all meetings of the BOD a majority of the Directors shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business........ Hope this helps.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
David - first, are you a condominium association that is required to follow FL Statutes 718, or an HOA association ( members own individual lots) under 720. You need to understand your own documents, as well as which of these FL state statutes applies to your association.
DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
That's a great question. Sorry for not being specific. This community contains individual homes and thus a HOA under 720. I think the problem is I'm missing our Bylaws. I have the CC&R as originally recorded with the Clerk of the Courts.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
David

Generally more then half of whatever is a quorum. 2 of 3 are a Quorum, 2 of 4 are not (a tie), 3 of 4 are, 3 of 5 are, 3 of 6 are not (a tie) and so on, thus one reason to have an uneven amount.

Say 2 of 3 are a Quorum but the vote is 1 to 1, thus a tie. This means that 1 of 3 (33%) could cause a tie.

Say 4 of 7 are a Quorum but the vote is 2 to 2, thus a tie. This means that 2 of 7 (less then 30%) could cause a tie.

Numbers are often not what they seem.....LOL

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Hi David, good for you for agreeing to serve! And yes there is a lot to learn.

First, get your Bylaws. Surely other members of your Board or your prop. mgr. have copies.

Generally speaking, a quorum is a majority of directors, who need to be physically present for the Board to conduct business. This usually applies no matter what kind of meeting of the Board it is: regular; special; emergency. It also applies to executive session.

(Depending on your state statutes and documents, directors also may be counted as present if attending by conference call during which everyone in attendance can hear them.)

As you know, meetings of the members (owners) are a different thing, and usually require a "quorum" of members, which may or may not be a majority, again, depending on what your documents say. In addition, sometimes, there may be a special meeting of members.

DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
CarolR,

I think you answered my question pending verification of our Bylaws. Basically, you are saying that for regular meetings where no homeowners show up a quorum could in fact be the majority of the directors. However, if all four board members are present and we have five homeowners present the fact that the full board is there constitutes a quorum. If a vote were to happen it is possible the five homeowners could out vote the four board members thus carry a motion; this even though the totality of the 9 people present come no where near a "member quorum" as in an annual meeting.

For an annual meeting the the quorum is defined by the Bylaws; example 30% of total members etc. Thus the "board quorum" as described above does not apply in annual meetings of the homeowners where new board members are voted upon.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
For a Board meeting, since you seem to have a Board of four directors, three are required to attend to make a quorum.

With a board of 4, all in attendance, 3 ( a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass. If only 3 directors attend, 2 (a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass.

As John46 points out, motions are not approved (do not pass) if there is a tie vote among directors. In your board of 4, the only possible tie would be 2-2.

So long as a quorum of directors are present, HOA business can be conducted whether any H/O's show up or not.

At a Board meeting of any kind, those homeowners who attend, but who are not directors, do NOT vote and do NOT count towards a quorum. H/O's only count towards a quorum & vote at meetings of Members (homeowners). (Unless your HOA is very unusual!!)

It's strange that you have a Board of 4 as most boards are of odd numbers to avoid tie votes. Another good reason to FIND your Bylaws, which will most likely state the number needed on your Board of Directors.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
David

It is not a matter of owners showing up, but more a matter of the type of meeting.

If it is a BOD Business Meeting, then no matter how many owners show up, the BOD needs a quorum of its members (BOD Members only) to do business. 3 of 6 BOD Members is not a Quorum even if 1,000 owners showup for the meeting. With 1,000 owners and not a Quorum, the 3 of 6 BOD Members cannot do business. The most they can do is have a chat and this might well exclude the 1,000 owners from saying a damn thing as it is not a meeting.

Keep in mind that laws can vary with CA and FL being the most screwed up/complex when it comes to associations. Also the "annual meeting" can vary quite a bit versus other type meetings.

I am not advocating the minority control the majority, but people must first understand how it can happen before they can effectively bring about "proper" change.

DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 08/07/2012 6:56 PM
For a Board meeting, since you seem to have a Board of four directors, three are required to attend to make a quorum.

With a board of 4, all in attendance, 3 ( a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass. If only 3 directors attend, 2 (a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass.

As John46 points out, motions are not approved (do not pass) if there is a tie vote among directors. In your board of 4, the only possible tie would be 2-2.

So long as a quorum of directors are present, HOA business can be conducted whether any H/O's show up or not.

At a Board meeting of any kind, those homeowners who attend, but who are not directors, do NOT vote and do NOT count towards a quorum. H/O's only count towards a quorum & vote at meetings of Members (homeowners). (Unless your HOA is very unusual!!)

It's strange that you have a Board of 4 as most boards are of odd numbers to avoid tie votes. Another good reason to FIND your Bylaws, which will most likely state the number needed on your Board of Directors.

Thank you CarolR. I was able to locate a copy of the Bylaws which specified your point about the BOD Meeting. Regarding the number on the BOD the standing board has always been 5 as in addition to having a President, VP, Treasurer, and Secretary we have an board member who is appointed by the developer of this neighborhood as he owns more than 5% of the original developer lots. However, this particular developer is far in arrears as to the assessed HOA dues on his lots. Our HOA rules allow us to remove from the BOD anyone who is 90 day past due on their Lot/Home HOA assessments.
DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/07/2012 6:56 PM
David

It is not a matter of owners showing up, but more a matter of the type of meeting.

If it is a BOD Business Meeting, then no matter how many owners show up, the BOD needs a quorum of its members (BOD Members only) to do business. 3 of 6 BOD Members is not a Quorum even if 1,000 owners showup for the meeting. With 1,000 owners and not a Quorum, the 3 of 6 BOD Members cannot do business. The most they can do is have a chat and this might well exclude the 1,000 owners from saying a damn thing as it is not a meeting.

Keep in mind that laws can vary with CA and FL being the most screwed up/complex when it comes to associations. Also the "annual meeting" can vary quite a bit versus other type meetings.

I am not advocating the minority control the majority, but people must first understand how it can happen before they can effectively bring about "proper" change.

Thanks John. I get it now. I was confusing the BOD Meeting with the annual HOA Meeting with regard to what constitutes a quorum. Now that I have the Bylaws handy I'm slowly de-noobing myself. ;-)


DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/07/2012 6:56 PM
David

It is not a matter of owners showing up, but more a matter of the type of meeting.

If it is a BOD Business Meeting, then no matter how many owners show up, the BOD needs a quorum of its members (BOD Members only) to do business. 3 of 6 BOD Members is not a Quorum even if 1,000 owners showup for the meeting. With 1,000 owners and not a Quorum, the 3 of 6 BOD Members cannot do business. The most they can do is have a chat and this might well exclude the 1,000 owners from saying a damn thing as it is not a meeting.

Keep in mind that laws can vary with CA and FL being the most screwed up/complex when it comes to associations. Also the "annual meeting" can vary quite a bit versus other type meetings.

I am not advocating the minority control the majority, but people must first understand how it can happen before they can effectively bring about "proper" change.


Thanks John. I get it now. I was confusing the BOD Meeting with the annual HOA Meeting with regard to what constitutes a quorum. Now that I have the Bylaws handy I'm slowly de-noobing myself. ;-)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidD17 on 08/07/2012 7:44 PM
Posted By CarolR11 on 08/07/2012 6:56 PM
For a Board meeting, since you seem to have a Board of four directors, three are required to attend to make a quorum.

With a board of 4, all in attendance, 3 ( a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass. If only 3 directors attend, 2 (a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass.

As John46 points out, motions are not approved (do not pass) if there is a tie vote among directors. In your board of 4, the only possible tie would be 2-2.

So long as a quorum of directors are present, HOA business can be conducted whether any H/O's show up or not.

At a Board meeting of any kind, those homeowners who attend, but who are not directors, do NOT vote and do NOT count towards a quorum. H/O's only count towards a quorum & vote at meetings of Members (homeowners). (Unless your HOA is very unusual!!)

It's strange that you have a Board of 4 as most boards are of odd numbers to avoid tie votes. Another good reason to FIND your Bylaws, which will most likely state the number needed on your Board of Directors.


Thank you CarolR. I was able to locate a copy of the Bylaws which specified your point about the BOD Meeting. Regarding the number on the BOD the standing board has always been 5 as in addition to having a President, VP, Treasurer, and Secretary we have an board member who is appointed by the developer of this neighborhood as he owns more than 5% of the original developer lots. However, this particular developer is far in arrears as to the assessed HOA dues on his lots. Our HOA rules allow us to remove from the BOD anyone who is 90 day past due on their Lot/Home HOA assessments.

David

Is your association still under declarant (developer) control?

In some states it can be until the last unit is sold. In some states once the 51% unit is sold the declarant must turn control over to the owners. It can vary widely. Our docs say 85% but that is sold as in closed, not just under contract.

You say standing BOD. Does this mean elected?

Your wording alludes to still under declarant control with an appointed (not elected) BOD.

Hope this helps.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
According to standard parliamentary procedure (eg., Roberts Rules):

"...a quorum in an assembly is the number of voting members . . . who must be present in order that business can be legally transacted. The quorum refers to the number of such members present, not to the number actually voting on a particular question."

"In the absence of a quorum, any business transacted (except for the procedural actions noted in the next paragraph) is null an void."

"The only action that can legally be taken in the absence of a quorum is to fix the time to which to adjourn, adjourn, recess, or take measures to obtain a quorum." In other words, in the absence of a quorum, you cannot make any motions other than these.

The default quorum is a majority (more than half). However, your bylaws may specify a different number. In the case of a board meeting (regular or special), your bylaws should specify what constitutes a quorum. Otherwise, follow your state's corporate law (assuming you are incorporated). If none is stated, the default is a majority.

It might be helpful to understand the purpose of a quorum, and parliamentary procedure in general. Parliamentary procedure was established as a set of rules to govern the conduct of business by a deliberative assembly. Parliamentary procedure attempts to obtain a fair balance at protecting the rights of the majority, the rights of the minority, and the rights of the individual. The purpose of a quorum is to protect the rights of the majority by preventing the decisions for the organization from being made by too few people.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
imo: you are confusing the (monthly) board of directors meeting with the annual homeowners meeting

@ the mo. bod meeting you need a quorum of the bod - if 5 diectors, usually 3 (or as per your bylaws) - to make bod decisions - the homeowners at these meetings DO NOT vote

@ the annual homeowners meeting you need a quorum of the OWNERS as defined in your documents
DavidD17 (Georgia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/07/2012 7:57 PM
Posted By DavidD17 on 08/07/2012 7:44 PM
Posted By CarolR11 on 08/07/2012 6:56 PM
For a Board meeting, since you seem to have a Board of four directors, three are required to attend to make a quorum.

With a board of 4, all in attendance, 3 ( a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass. If only 3 directors attend, 2 (a majority) would need to vote in favor of a motion for it to pass.

As John46 points out, motions are not approved (do not pass) if there is a tie vote among directors. In your board of 4, the only possible tie would be 2-2.

So long as a quorum of directors are present, HOA business can be conducted whether any H/O's show up or not.

At a Board meeting of any kind, those homeowners who attend, but who are not directors, do NOT vote and do NOT count towards a quorum. H/O's only count towards a quorum & vote at meetings of Members (homeowners). (Unless your HOA is very unusual!!)

It's strange that you have a Board of 4 as most boards are of odd numbers to avoid tie votes. Another good reason to FIND your Bylaws, which will most likely state the number needed on your Board of Directors.


Thank you CarolR. I was able to locate a copy of the Bylaws which specified your point about the BOD Meeting. Regarding the number on the BOD the standing board has always been 5 as in addition to having a President, VP, Treasurer, and Secretary we have an board member who is appointed by the developer of this neighborhood as he owns more than 5% of the original developer lots. However, this particular developer is far in arrears as to the assessed HOA dues on his lots. Our HOA rules allow us to remove from the BOD anyone who is 90 day past due on their Lot/Home HOA assessments.


David

Is your association still under declarant (developer) control?

In some states it can be until the last unit is sold. In some states once the 51% unit is sold the declarant must turn control over to the owners. It can vary widely. Our docs say 85% but that is sold as in closed, not just under contract.

You say standing BOD. Does this mean elected?

Your wording alludes to still under declarant control with an appointed (not elected) BOD.

Hope this helps.


It is not under developer control. We have an elected BOD consisting of President, VP, Sec, Trea plus a board member appointed by the developer while he maintains at least 5% ownership of undeveloped lots.
JeanI (Louisiana)
Posts: 112
Posted:
You must distinguish between regular/special board meetings and annual meeting of the members. Members are invited to board meetings if they are open meetings but do not count toward the quorum for the board to conduct business. We have quarterly board meetings where a majority of the board members present constitute a quorum. Whereas, at the annual meeting, which is the business meeting of the membership, a quorum is 33 1/3% of the membership present in person or by absentee ballot. This is clearly spelled out in our bylaws. Who has your legal documents? Management company or the developer? The board should have copies of all legal documents and copies should be posted on your website for the membership. JeanI

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here