Board tried to pull my ballot to vote.

Nancy

In other posts did you not admit to owing this money and said rather then fight it, you were going to pay it?

I am curious to this situation. Do you have a link to the previous threads?

Also, I am curious as to why you had lost even though they never had a permit or easement.

Also, I disagree with this sentiment: "since when is it your role to enforce easements or permits?"

If someone were to come onto my property and make a change, such as a drainage pipe, there better be appropriate documentation. What would happen if that pipe were to clog and back up causing damage? What if it was installed improperly and someone got injured? Who would be held liable?

It is not a matter of enforcing easements and permits but a enforcing property rights.

Now considering you had lost, IMO the letter they sent would probably not count as an assessment (unless your governing documents specify otherwise). Did you pay damages when losing the court battle? I would think that that would sort of wipe the slate clean if you did (unless the damages did not include cost of the drain pipe).

IMO the HOA was wrong to refuse your ballot but they could simply remedy the situation by issuing a proper assessment.

I am not an Attorney – just some thoughts - Assessment is somewhat a general term. There can be “an Assessment” that means a sum attributable to each unit and due to the Association to pay for Common Expense Liability. There can be “Special” Assessments.

Some State Statutes may contain words such as: Unless the declaration provides otherwise, fines, late charges, and other fees are treated as assessments for lien purposes.

Also words such as: there can be the sums due which are not a part of the association's budget and therefore are not included in that unit's assessment but which are enforceable in the same manner as unpaid assessments.

IMO, the $325.09 money owed for the cost of replacing the drain pipe is a “sum due”.

Doing a “quick search” of your State Statute (assuming it is applicable to your Association)I found:

North Carolina § 47F-3-102 (11). (emphasis added):

(11) Impose reasonable charges for late payment of assessments, not to exceed the greater of twenty dollars ($20.00) per month or ten percent (10%) of any assessment installment unpaid and, after notice and an opportunity to be heard, suspend privileges or services provided by the association (except rights of access to lots) during any period that assessments OR other amounts due and owing to the association remain unpaid for a period of 30 days or longer;

John - I could have said this I would have to go back and check my prior post. Since that though, I changed my mind after going to an attorney and was advised I didn't own them anything. When I received the 2 letters I gave them to my attorney and she said don't do anything with them file them. The reason being that they came on my property prior to obtaining the easement and permit and I can prove it. They may sue me, I will have to wait and see.

Kevin - 1.See under NancyG1 regarding drainage pipe.
2. I only sued them for damages in small claims court. I sued trespassing and damages. Magistrate said I didn't prove my damages. You can't sue in small claims court for easements. Has to be civil court, this is what my attorney wrote to the State.
3. It was my role to protect my property from becoming a swamp. I didn't enforce easement or permit, the State of NC that handles storm water drainage did. At the time I took them to court the Board did not have an easement or permit. They only received the easement and permit in 2012.
4. They had no documentation.
5. I agree I was trying to enforce my property rights.
6. I did not pay anything after losing the court case. They did not countersue me for the pipe or attorneys fees.
7. I'm sure the Board will do something, not sure what. I kept wondering why they did not countersue me.

Thank Kevin this has really been a long drawn out problem because it took them so long to obtain the easement and permit. When they came to put the pipe in I didn't try to stop them because I knew it was legal. The permit had been issued and papers were filed in Record of Deeds in our County.

No John I lost the battle but won the war. The Board finally got the easement and permit and made my property in compliance with the State Storm Water Plan in our community. That's all I wanted to start with. If they had done this to start with none of this would have happened.

My first lawyer was a scumbag for not going to court with me. My lawyer now seems to be OK but I think my lawyer believes it is such a small amount that it isn't worth doing anything about. I agree with someone who said my lawyer should have answered the letter and maybe this wouldn't of happened today.

I just thought the folks would like to know how things are turning out. Guess I was wrong. Sorry to bother everyone.

Meliss - I'm not going all the back (2 years) and explain this to you. I am only telling you that you are incorrect with what you wrote about my property and what you have written about my property is not true. This is not a violation of any of our covenants.

No matter what you all think, this Board tried to do something without going thru the legal channels of obtaining an easement and permit. By them doing this they took my property out of compliance with the State and changed my property description. I handled this under attorney's advice, lots of leg work to Town, County and State. I thought it was all over until yesterday at the annual meeting. Guess not.

Glen: I understand what you are saying as this has been said to me right from the start 2 years back. This is why I'm where I am today because of what you said. My first attorney said the same thing, but he was the one that said I could remove the pipe and wouldn't have any trouble suing in small claims court. What you say is why I didn't take to upper court. I don't know if I would have won, I just know I should have taken it furhter. But everybody kept saying the cost, the cost so I didn't. Now it is coming back to bite me in the a__. It's a shame everything always comes down to the money aspect. When you do everthing legal and go through the legal system and the other party does things outside of the legal system they win because the legal person doesn't want to spend any more money. I guess I'm an old stubborn broad who believes it's the principle of the thing. I have set a limit as to how much I will spend. Thank you for your good and kind straight thinking.

Now I am being told the HOA can put an assessment on my property then a lien and then take my property without proving that I owe this assessment. They can do all this without even telling me. Something is wrong with this. I have to take this back to my attorney and discuss further. Again thanks Glen.

Nancy seems hell bent on proving she is RIGHT at any cost. And she is also unable or unwilling to provide just what the charges against her are for. Now if I spoke to an attorney that would be my first question "What are they charging me for and is this legal?" And if the HOA now views this as an assessment and proceeds along those lines to fight their effrots will be costly. But the legal advice she is going with "ignore them". Sounds like a wise plan to me............

And the fact Nancy sued for trespassing and damages and appeared in court WITHOUT her lawyer who she paid sounds to me like her chances for success were ZERO. When you arrive in court with the idea you are in the right based solely on YOUR opinions and beliefs you are wasting your time and the court's time.

So now the pipe is installed. So has your property become swampland as you had feared? Judging from the fact the court ruled against Nancy my guess no.

So just how much did the property spend defending her suit? So her neighbors covered the cost of her suit for damages and if she won they would have paid. Sound like a good way to spend money for the other homeowners?

And Nancy's neighbor who now feels the need to harrass her when she is out. Just why has their behavior changed? Is it something they did OR something Nancy made an issue of?

From what Nancy has provided it is like she is a dog with a bone. Just won't let it go. So now she plans to seek more legal advice and continue to fight rather than walking in and asking one simple question.

"HOW DO I BRING THIS MATTER TO AN END ONCE AND FOR ALL?"

And YES I would have to believe the HOA has other issues more pressing than collecting $300 and would be willing to settle this IF Nancy were interested. But she has indicated nothing other than having it HER way.

When you go to court and lose, when your neighbors begin to try to make you feel unwelcomed, when the Board refuses you the ability to vote in the HOA election these would all serve as evidence to ME just perhaps MY behavior was what should be questioned.

When you come to any situation with the position the OTHER party has to change and YOU need to do nothing tough to move on.

Sad when lives become consumed with such unimportant issues. Time not well spent.

But the lawyers LOVE it puts $$$$$$ in their pockets and takes it from yours.............

I thought all was said and that is why I closed this forum, however, since Jon found it necessary to send this message I have to respond. I also, didn't want to get back into discussing what happened almost 2 years back.

"Nancy seems hell bent on proving she is RIGHT at any cost. And she is also unable or unwilling to provide just what the charges against her are for. Now if I spoke to an attorney that would be my first question "What are they charging me for and is this legal?" And if the HOA now views this as an assessment and proceeds along those lines to fight their effrots will be costly. But the legal advice she is going with "ignore them". Sounds like a wise plan to me............"

Joh - I had dropped this matter until the Board brought it up almost 2 years later. From what I understand they are assessing me for replacing the pipe that I removed when they placed it on my property without a permit or an easement. Now after almost 2 years when they obtained the easement and permit they come back for me to pay for the replacement. Your question is the first question I will ask my attorney. I did ignore them (on advice of attorney) and at the meeting they said I had an assessment against my property. I was totally unaware. Does that answer your question?

"And the fact Nancy sued for trespassing and damages and appeared in court WITHOUT her lawyer who she paid sounds to me like her chances for success were ZERO. When you arrive in court with the idea you are in the right based solely on YOUR opinions and beliefs you are wasting your time and the court's time."

When I went to court it was not based on my opinions and beliefs it was based on our Town, State laws, Attorney and our Covenants. I had letters from the State and Town that the pipe was on my property. I had my plat, pictures, survey, engineer report, all my papers in order. I can't answer why I lost. I only sued for damages. I later found out that trespassing can't be filed in small claims court. The only conclusion I can come to is I didn't present my case like an attorney would. The Board's attorney had a picture of my neighbors property which showed no damage and his property looked like mine. (Later I found out why - I don't know who did it, but there were 2 holding drains placed on my neighbors property and the pipe leading to the basin was a solid pipe instead of a perforated one. I don't know if they did anything to his property on the other side of his house to stop the water.) When my original attorney said I didn't need an attorney I should have gotten one that would go to court with me. A big mistake on my part.

"So now the pipe is installed. So has your property become swampland as you had feared? Judging from the fact the court ruled against Nancy my guess no."

I hope I didn't say that and you read it wrong. If I did say that I meant, if the "original pipe" had stayed in it would have become a swampland. Now that the pipe (after almost 2 years)has been installed it does do what it was intended to do. Like I stated now that it is in compliance I have no problem.

"So just how much did the property spend defending her suit? So her neighbors covered the cost of her suit for damages and if she won they would have paid. Sound like a good way to spend money for the other homeowners?"

I spent about $600. to date for attorney fees. But I sued for a little over $1800. I have no idea what the Assn paid. They put it under the Assn insurance coverage.

"From what Nancy has provided it is like she is a dog with a bone. Just won't let it go. So now she plans to seek more legal advice and continue to fight rather than walking in and asking one simple question."

"HOW DO I BRING THIS MATTER TO AN END ONCE AND FOR ALL?"

I have asked myself that question. I think it is the Board that is the "dog" with a bone and won't let it go. I know the answer to that question and you should too. It is to pay what the Board has asked.

"And YES I would have to believe the HOA has other issues more pressing than collecting $300 and would be willing to settle this IF Nancy were interested. But she has indicated nothing other than having it HER way."

How rude is this. I'm sure the Board would settle this if I paid them what I don't owe. This last statement is not true. If I owed it I would pay it. If the Board had all their papers they needed when they started the project I would not have objected. By the way, you missed something that I want you to know maybe this will change some of your thoughts. I went to the Board when they told the homeowners they were starting this project and asked if they had a permit and they told me no. When I was a Board member I handled the stormwater matters of our community and knew that a permit was needed. I advised the Board that before they started to contact the State and find out exactly what was required before they started. They never contacted the State or Town, they just went ahead and did their thing.

"When you go to court and lose, when your neighbors begin to try to make you feel unwelcomed, when the Board refuses you the ability to vote in the HOA election these would all serve as evidence to ME just perhaps MY behavior was what should be questioned"

Maybe your behavior should be questions because of what you just wrote. Not all my neightbors have made me feel unwelcome, as a matter of fact I have a lot of homeowners that are my friends. It's just 1 neighbor that has tried to bully me because it was proved he was wrong. Why should my behavior be questioned. I didn't do anything pertaining to this after I went to court in 2010. Now in 2012 I received the letters from the Board and I won't let it go! I think it is the Board that won't let it go. And they really don't have to. Apparently Boards can do whatever they want because they know homeowners won't spend the money and they have the Assn money to use.

"Sad when lives become consumed with such unimportant issues. Time not well spent."

Easy for you to say, it wasn't your property and you didn't have the mess I had. As for now I will go back to my attorney, because I can't deal with this Board, and take her advice.

"But the lawyers LOVE it puts $$$$$$ in their pockets and takes it from yours.............

The only time this happens is when Boards do not investigate all aspects of a project before they proceed. Then between rumors from the Board and a biased newsletter inform the homeowners that none of this was their fault it was the homeowners because they wouldn't let them do what they wanted to do on the homeowners property. Legal or not.

Jon - You do not know all the in betweens, you would have to have lived them. I consider myself a strong woman, and when I am wrong I admit it. Just a footnote and you can believe this or not and take it anyway you wish. If I pay this, one of the Board members will be on the streets telling everybody I told you we were right and can do anything we want to. She paid because she knows she was wrong. This is how vendictive the one woman is and it will also be in our community newsletter. It happened before, so this will be a repeat if I pay. So if you thing I am wrong for not paying it before really checking into it further is your opinion.

I apologize to all the other people for responding like this to Jon. Jon I have always appreciated your messages but some of these comments weren't necessary. Sorry, I hope I haven't offended you.

"Jon - You do not know all the in betweens, you would have to have lived them. I consider myself a strong woman, and when I am wrong I admit it. Just a footnote and you can believe this or not and take it anyway you wish. If I pay this, one of the Board members will be on the streets telling everybody I told you we were right and can do anything we want to. She paid because she knows she was wrong. This is how vendictive the one woman is and it will also be in our community newsletter. It happened before, so this will be a repeat if I pay. So if you thing I am wrong for not paying it before really checking into it further is your opinion."

Nancy the bottom line here is you decided to remove a pipe the HOA installed. You decided they needed to do the work to YOUR satisfaction.
You sued your own property for damages and harrassment, evidently you were unprepared to present your case and to this day you have yet to understand why the court ruled against you.

Now the HOA has billed you for $300 and the attorney you put your faith in tells you to ignore them. General rule in life especially in HOAs never ignore letters or demands from the HOA.

They want to recoup the cost of REDOING the work that was done. Pretty simple if you had not removed the pipe gone to court and lost while leaving the pipe in place there would have been no cost to you! But you took the action and now the Board thinks YOU not the other owners shoulf bare the cost of installing this pipe for the second time!

So you HOA went through the insurance to cover their costs. Is there a deductible? So more than likley your neighbors paid for that too.

Now rather then paying the $300 you feel not paying is best because the Board and the vindictive members will use this payment against you. Better all they have is you sued the property and lost, you removed a pipe they installed and lost, you sued the property and their insurance for $1,800 and lost, and now you refuse to pay the installation costs.

Do you really think this all matters in the end? Let me explain, the people who dislike you will dislike you whether you pay or not. And if you were to pay those who support you will still speak to you. But you seem to be worried now about saving face. All over $300 and the contents of a newsletter.

Yes you certainly don't want anyone talking badly about you or your behavior. The reality is they have been for some years now and whether you pay and END this or seek more legal advice (that has served you so well) and continue to stand on what you alone think is principle there'sre still going to talk about you. You have made sure of that.

Not once have you stated at ANY point you were wrong. Not one single time when it is clear to me you handled much of this poorly.

IMO foolish, foolish behavior. Life is to short to dwell on this sort of nonsense like "what will they say about me if I pay? sort of nonsense.

But no doubt the lawyer will certainly take more of your money to save face in front of those who dislike you.

There is a way out you can't allow yourself to take it.

I am confused as to why would the HOA have the legal obligation to comply with the state's storm water plan if the pipe were to cross an individual's property, especially if they had no easement at the time? Wouldn't the individual be required to bring the property up to code?

Kevin forgot to add our community is built on wetlands.