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VanessaS1
Posts: 5
Posted:
In corresponding with board members/management company over email regarding a violation, would their response be considered one of the "warnings" if they advised me of the regulations and why i am violating them? (my HOA never uses email as a form of initial notification for a violation).

or do they have to send a letter out via snail mail and indicate this is a warning, correct the issue or you may be fined, etc?

our CC&R's dont state anywhere about the forms of communication... but i may have to look harder.

Thanks in advance everyone!
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Vanessa:
You need to check state law. Many states are modernizing and allowing e-mail notifications for official business.
Jeanne
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Vanessa

Either the Board or the manageement company must send the notice via snail mail.
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
Vanessa: I agree with Richard. This is what happened to me. I took my Assn to small claims court, most of my evidence was emails from the BOD, State and City. The magistrate would not allow them. I never got a reason why. Just emails weren't admissable. Anything important like violations should be in writing and if no response the second letter goes Certified Mail Receipt Requested. If the BOD is sending it by email, request a formal letter. Hope this helps.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Vanessa,

Nancy's advice about the admission of e-mails in court is good info. However, you are not in court - you are dealing with the HOA and trying to resolve the issue prior to going to court.

Per davis-stirling.com page on e-mail, there are instances where an e-mail address was deemed appropriate notice. Typically, though the member needs to authorize the use of e-mail by providing the e-mail address.

Davis-Stirling.com also has a violaion page which gives more info.

Typically the CC&Rs only give the right to enforce. The process of enforcement is usually adopted via policy resolutions by the Board and may change in order to be in compliance with State HOA/COA laws. Ask your Association for a copy of their enforcement policy.

My Association does an informal notice (verbal or written), formal notice (written via first class mail) and then holds a hearing with the notice of the hearing being sent via certified mail as our enforcement procedure. Personal opinion, I do believe that the first notice could be e-mail providing the formal notice is via first class mail.

The way you worded the question in your post it doesn't sound like your disputing the violation just the procedure used to notify you of the violation. My advice would be if your in violation, to bring the issue into compliance. There are far more important things in life to fight over.

Tim
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Take Tim's advice, Vanessa, and click on the references that he's provided. The davis-stirling site is valuable for all kinds of HOA info., esp. in CA.
VanessaS1
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all so much for your input!!

Here is the background-- (no I am not trying to fight the issue, because I am aware I was wrong.)
I installed a security screen door without prior approval. I sent an email to the president informing him the screen was installed. 4 hours later that evening I get a response indicating I needed to go through proper Channels for approval and I may have to remove it or face possible fines. Emails were cc'd to our manager which he also responded and stated the president had informed me of the process, stating the form needs to be submitted prior or at the board meeting they may vote to have us remove it or face possible fines.
Yesterday I receive my first snail mail letter indicating it was brought to managements attention that a screen door was installed. The threatened a possible fine of $50 and to appear at our next meeting.
It's not coming down, the thing is bolted to the door frame.... Taking it down would mean additional work to repair which in turn would mean more aritechural forms!!! I will have to wait and see their decision.

Thank you again for listening and advising.
VanessaS1
Posts: 5
Posted:
Sorry- to further clarify... No email/ snail mail letter instructed us to remove it.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Say, Vanessa, after you received your first response from the president, did you begin the proper written procedure to get approval for your screen door?
VanessaS1
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes. I sent one in an email to the president, and cc the manager.... Also faxed it to the management company 2 days after installation.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Vanessa,

It sounds like the Association is going through the process they need to do.
Sometimes, in order to comply with the governing documents and/or State laws, the wording of enforcement letters gets the ire of the individual receiving the letter.

With the additional information you provided, I would recommend the following:

1) respond to the ACC that you previously misunderstood the process but now understand the process required and are certainly willing to comply with the committee's decision of the request. Ask that you be allowed to leave the door up until the committee approves or disapproves the request. If the request is denied, you will certainly remove the door.

2) attend the meeting with supporting documentation (photos of similar doors in the area, copy of the advertisement for the door to show the style, etc.)

3) apologize again for your misunderstanding of the procedures (more flies with honey type of thing)

See what happens.

Tim
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/03/2012 8:12 PM
Vanessa,

It sounds like the Association is going through the process they need to do.
Sometimes, in order to comply with the governing documents and/or State laws, the wording of enforcement letters gets the ire of the individual receiving the letter.

With the additional information you provided, I would recommend the following:

1) respond to the ACC that you previously misunderstood the process but now understand the process required and are certainly willing to comply with the committee's decision of the request. Ask that you be allowed to leave the door up until the committee approves or disapproves the request. If the request is denied, you will certainly remove the door.

2) attend the meeting with supporting documentation (photos of similar doors in the area, copy of the advertisement for the door to show the style, etc.)

3) apologize again for your misunderstanding of the procedures (more flies with honey type of thing)

See what happens.

Tim

This is sound advice.
FrankM7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
In regard to the email notification process, since we regularly email personalized dues invoices, automated from our software, to our members, we can and will start including a simple although personalized verification statement in the text of the email to confirm their acceptance of invoices from the board via their email address. They then can, at any time, notify us concerning changes to their email address or mailing/emailing preferences.

In addition to sending invoices via email, except for one owner who requires snail mail, we send a receipt for each payment when received or when credited to their account. That receipt is welcomed verification of payment especially for those using automated checks from their banks.

I appreciate the above responses and link concerning email notifications. It helps me as treasurer to focus on the best way to handle our invoicing details and related correspondence.
VanessaS1
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/04/2012 4:52 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 08/03/2012 8:12 PM
Vanessa,

It sounds like the Association is going through the process they need to do.
Sometimes, in order to comply with the governing documents and/or State laws, the wording of enforcement letters gets the ire of the individual receiving the letter.

With the additional information you provided, I would recommend the following:

1) respond to the ACC that you previously misunderstood the process but now understand the process required and are certainly willing to comply with the committee's decision of the request. Ask that you be allowed to leave the door up until the committee approves or disapproves the request. If the request is denied, you will certainly remove the door.

2) attend the meeting with supporting documentation (photos of similar doors in the area, copy of the advertisement for the door to show the style, etc.)

3) apologize again for your misunderstanding of the procedures (more flies with honey type of thing)

See what happens.

Tim


This is sound advice.

Thank you kindly!!! I appreciate it. I will send a response out Monday.
ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VanessaS1 on 08/02/2012 7:36 PM
In corresponding with board members/management company over email regarding a violation, would their response be considered one of the "warnings" if they advised me of the regulations and why i am violating them? (my HOA never uses email as a form of initial notification for a violation).

or do they have to send a letter out via snail mail and indicate this is a warning, correct the issue or you may be fined, etc?

our CC&R's dont state anywhere about the forms of communication... but i may have to look harder.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Do search the discussion forums here also. The question comes up verrrrrry often. I think I asked about it.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Another place to look in davis-stirling.com is "Due Process.."
ChristineS5 (Washington)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our state frowns on them, too. I even heard of a judge saying the reason he hates emails is because they can be manipulated; therefore, he already looks upon the emails as less then credible evidence.

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