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RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
The question I wish to put forth will relate to the address of a
Management Company. In the Condominium Document it states that
the Management Company must have a physical address listed. But,
as his business is in his home, can he get by with a Post Office box
address and not a physical address of his home.

When asked to discuss a problem he want to come to our unit and talk
to us, and does not want us to come to his home/Place of business. This
does not look correct to me. I have had many owner ask, just where is
our Management Company located. My answer (joking) --at the post
office.

As I have worked with this web sight in the past I feel that many are
professional, but have no idea of the backgrounds of many, but trust
that much of what is said is correct

I’m frustrated.
Richard.
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
Richard: How long has your Assn had this management company? Why was this person hired? Are you sure he is a certified management company, have insurance and bonded? If you are concerned you should do some background checking of the company. Check how much you pay him to handle your Assn and go shopping.

Why won't he list his home address as this is where his business is? If he is licensed I'm sure he must have a physical address. Check with your State about Management Companys to see if they have to be licensed. Why does it not look correct to you? Your Board should have an address for him because of your Assn records. If something happened to him how would you know where to go to pick up all Assn papers.

I am a past Board of Director serving as Treasurer and President. Hope this gives you a start.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
If I assume by your "Condominium Document" you are referring to your CCRs, then it appears to me that your board was in violation of your CCRs by signing a contract with a management company that does not list a physical address as required.
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Thank you, I'm going to do just that. Check it out and talk to the board.
Thanks.
Richard
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

I would say if the manager is registered, licensed, bonded whatever one needs to be, then the address is a minor, nitpicking issue.

My belief.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/30/2012 1:58 PM
Richard

I would say if the manager is registered, licensed, bonded whatever one needs to be, then the address is a minor, nitpicking issue.

My belief.

I would agree, it seems minor, except if it is a CCR requirement, it is a CCR requirement. To an HOA, they are the laws, meant not to be violated. If you believe what's in the CCRs are minor, nitpicking issues, then change the CCRs. It's not up to the board to decide which clauses to enforce and which clauses to ignore.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bruce

Allow me to rephrase:

I would say if the manager is registered, licensed, bonded whatever one needs to be, then the fact that his listed business address is a PO Box, is a minor, nitpicking issue.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Richard,

Is the Management Company also the statutory agent for the association? If so, it may be a violation of your state's corporate code to use a PO Box instead of a street address.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/30/2012 2:20 PM
Bruce

Allow me to rephrase:

I would say if the manager is registered, licensed, bonded whatever one needs to be, then the fact that his listed business address is a PO Box, is a minor, nitpicking issue.


I disagree. The if the CCRs specify a physical address, then a physical address is what is required. Period. When the CCRs were drafted, it was felt at the time that a physical address was required. If a PO Box is now considered acceptable, then change the CCRs to reflect that.

I have at several times in my life seen requirements that a person or company supply a physical address. A PO Box may be supplied as an alternate mailing address, but the application (or whatever the document is) is adamant that a PO box is unacceptable as the only address.

Again, I feel that the board cannot pick and choose which CCR requirements to adhere to and which can be ignored, any more than you or I can pick and choose which laws are to be obeyed and which are not.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bruse

Not an issue. We can agree to disagree.

I place registered, licensed, bonded whatever one needs to be higher on my list hten an address.

An alike story.

I moved back to a state after having not lived there for some 20 years and I was served some papers within 30 days. I asked my secretary if she knew an attorney who was versed in these issues. She said yes and gave me a name an phone number. I called, he asked for some facts, and he said OK, let me look into it and let us schedule an appointment. I said OK.

I showed up for the appointment. His office was in his house with a side entrance into the basement. I went in, and he was there. After introductions he noticed me looking about and he asked if I had some issues. I said well candidly I am more use to my lawyers being in a big building, foyers, names on plaques, receptionists , etc.

He said well, he was one of them once now he does it like this. I said well you came recommended, so let us give it a go.

Bottom line is he cleared up my issue rather fast and for what I conssidered cheap money.

While cliche to say, do not judge a book by its cover nor a professional by their address.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
John,

Ah, yes, but you had his physical address. You did not meet the lawyer in a P.O. Box or at the Post Office.

Physical addresses are required in many cases. Many banks require a physical address. I believe most states require a physical address to obtain a driver's license. Form I-9, certification for eligibility for employment requires a physical address. And yes, to obtain a P.O. Box address you must supply a physical address on the application. Anytime where there is the likelihood that you must be able to be found by a court officer, a sheriff or deputy, or the police or any law enforcement agency you will be required to supply a physical address.

My point is, neither you nor I put that requirement in the CCRs in question. We don't know why it's there, but somebody thought it was necessary for some reason. It's not up to you nor I nor anyone else to decide that the requirement is trivial and can be ignored because we can't understand why it's there, even if we think other conditions are of greater importance. The fact is, that requirement is there, for whatever reason, and we have to comply with it.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
John,

By the way, I agree with you that stating a "physical" location is least important and, as I will point out below, is not even assurance of a legitimate business. My point all along is that if supplying a street address (physical location) is a requirement, we have no authority to waive that requirement, just as a secretary of state or a town/city clerk has no authority to waive that requirement if it is necessary to supply a physical address on an application for a business license (and it usually is).

Now, having a physical address is no assurance that the business is legitimate. Take a look at the following three business addresses:

1032 24th Street West, #245
Billings, MT 59188

1795 W. Broadway, #132
Idaho Falls, KS 83402

3184 Channing Way, #322
Idaho Falls, ID 83403

All three of the above are genuine physical locations and appear to be a suite in an office building location. However, they are in reality the address of a location that provides private postal drop box services for its customers. This is a trick often employed by scammers to make it appear that they are operating a business at a physical location. This trick even works on applications for business licenses that require a physical location on the application, since a physical street address is given.

By the way, all three of the above "businesses" have been shut down by the feds for illegal activity.
HeleneN (Connecticut)
Posts: 84
Posted:


Richard

Bruce and John make excellent points. Why don't you just go to the management company and tell them how it is and request his/her address before you shoot yourself in the foot. Sounds like one person doing business as xyz Co. Might be perfecrly legitimate and perhaps his/her home is in a zone that puts limitations on doing business that increases "foot traffic", signage, ect. If that's the situation there is no reason he/she wouldn't provide you with a home address while still using the P.O. Box for mail.

If you are having qualms about this Company, check out the Colorado Secretary of State to see if the company is registered and check out the Better Business Bureau. I don't know how you contracted with this company, did you have references? If "at the end of the day" your'e not satisfied then it might be time to move on.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
RichardL7 states:
"In the Condominium Document it states that the Management Company must have a physical address listed. But, as his business is in his home, can he get by with a Post Office box address and not a physical address of his home."

If true, the Board is ignoring their duty. Your complaint would be with the Board of Directors, not the MC.

"When asked to discuss a problem he want to come to our unit and talk to us, and does not want us to come to his home/Place of business. This does not look correct to me."

Why are you frustrated? If the MC is willing to come to your unit that seems like an excellent personal service which benefits the homeowner.

RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
OK Guy’s and Gal’s shake hands. We are trying to work this out. L.O.L.

I can understand each and every point stated. The problem is that, as with this question, each has an opinion. Why do you think the law’s were set up in the first place??. Clearly to establish law and Order. This is what the section reads.

Colorado C.I.O.A. Art. 33.3
ARTICLE 33.3
COLORADO COMMON INTEREST OWNERSHIP ACT:

§ 38-33.3-209.4. Public disclosures required--identity of association--agent--
manager--contact information
(1) Within ninety days after assuming control from the declarant pursuant to section
38-33.3-303(5), the association
shall make the following information available to unit owners upon reasonable notice
in accordance with subsection
(3) of this section. In addition, if the association's address, designated agent, or management company changes, the association shall make updated information available within ninety days after the
change:
(a) The name of the association;
(b) The name of the association's designated agent or management company, if any;
(c) A valid physical address and telephone number for both the association and the designated agent or management company, if any. It looks clear to me.
Richard.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The only real issue I see here is the fact that court orders (Evictions, certain warrants, etc...) can't be served on Post office box. They have to have a physical mailbox in which to serve on. I had a tenant that didn't pay his rent for several months and had to evict him. Due to the fact he used a Post Office box for his mail for his business/home, it was not possible for me to serve the police to collect on my small claims court ruling. Often the police have to go in and remove an item that is worth the same amount or close to the amount of money owed. For example: This guy owed me 3K. He had a motorcycle registered in the county. The police could go get that bike for me to sell. If that bike sold for $5K, then I would have to give him the 2K profit. I could only collect the 3K that was owed. Court is ONLY to make a person "WHOLE".

I can understand why he would not want people coming to his home as MC. However, as President of a HOA, people often came to mine all the time. It can be kind of tough and lose some privacy. It doesn't sound like this person has fully embraced their role. It's a business to them. For me, it was just a life style and accepted the fact people would come visit at any time for any reason.

Former HOA President
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
RichardL, I agree. It was clear to me that your association was failing to comply with CCIOA. So I suggest you educate your Board of Director and request they comply with the statute. This may require an amendment to the Management Agreement. A competant MC would have already been in compliance and would have advised the Board on any non compliance with all CCIOA statutes. Should a new MC be considered?
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Thank you Roger, It has been clear for the past two years that a new
management Co is in order, but try as I might, I can’t get the Board to
read the Laws, Bylaws or any part of the Associations laws, and as for
the Management Company??? Well I would have better luck talking to
my Cat, and you know cat’s.
On a serious side, We are making progress and as my wife is now on the
board and is not afraid to address issues, we have a chance. The two of
us plus a few owner put the Board and M.C. on the Red carpet last
week, and now some home owners are also. We have a chance
and we are pushing hard for accountability. Also we have confronted
the Board and M.C. on failure to comply with rules, Regulation, state
laws and all documents for the Association. At the last meeting the
Board and M.C. was racked over the coals, and with back up
documentation. That’s why the question was asked about the P.O. Box
for the M.C. In school the word physical address was not hard to
understand, or so I’m thinking
Last part, is finding a good management Company and we will start
looking.
My Thanks to one and all and for the HOA Talk.com
Richard
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
RichardL, If you are in the Denver area perhaps I can be of assistance to you. Following is a post from 2007 with my contact info:

hoatalk
Posts:539

11/26/2007 8:29 AM Quote Reply
I'd say it's time for a new management company. Since you are in Colorado, I'd recommend you contact one of our sponsors, DARCO HOA Property Management in Lone Tree at 303-925-0150.

Roger from DARCO is a regular here and has posted thousands of helpful answers for our members. If you look in our service directory pages and click DARCO you will see their quotes on collections.

NOTE: HOATalk and DARCO have no business relationship other then the fact that DARCO is a sponsor here. We do not get paid extra to recommend them to you. I just know Roger is an expert and you are in his state.

Best Regards,
HOATalk.com
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

Posting about your unhappiness with your association's Management Company and asked for advice is one issue.

Coming out here with some chicken$hit stuff about their address shows poor/sneaky/amateur/unprofessional, etc. traits.

Sorry, but you lost my respect.

RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
John C46. Never wanted it John, Someone once said, the vocabulary and attitude shows the charter. You just did.

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