easement

Started by BB5 • 18 replies • 1674 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145

Posted:

A homeowner in the HOA has placed a dock on the easement to the lake (plat map says it's for everyone's use)and ran an electric wire from his home several hundred feet down the hill to the dock, it is nailed to trees here and there is the HOA legally liable if someone is injured ?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

BB5

HOA or not, I can pretty well assure you what he did is against all known electrical codes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I would let them know that because they put that there it means ALL owners can use it. They can NOT make it private. Either they will be okay with that or complain. That would be my first step. After that it may take some more action. Unless the HOa as a whole adopts the dock amongst themselves, the owner should be responsible for it.

A HOA can have the power to remove the dock if they want if it was not approved or able to be used by all. The HOA can tell them to remove it on their dime or the HOa will pay for it to remove it at their cost with the bill going to the owner. If they do not pay it then the HOa can place a lien on their property. Which is the most aggressive step to take. I would NOT sue.

I would also ask the HOA's insurance company just to follow up.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

Sometimes it is easier for someone else to kill the snake.....non-conforming electrical...LOL

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BB5 on 07/21/2012 1:30 PM
is the HOA legally liable if someone is injured ?

As a general rule, the entity who owns the land on which an easement exists is not liable for the acts of someone who uses the easement. This case, however, is complicated by the fact that the user has strung electrical wiring in open and obvious violation of electrical codes, thereby creating a hazard to all others. If the association is aware of the illegal wiring and allows it to remain, then the association might have some liability.

The HOA would be foolish under these circumstances to wait for someone to be injured before doing anything. They should rip down those wires immediately and remove any other hazards that the property owner has put on the easement.

BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145

Posted:

From reading posts the best way to handle the problem would be to call the power company is this correct ? Several people have been electrocuted in the last few weeks (swimming)because of faulty wiring there are more I'm sure this one just happens to be very close to our dock and where a lot of us swim.

JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

The power company is one avenue but other than turning off the service they have no punitive authority.

It may be simply a matter of calling your city/county code enforcement dept. They can order it removed immediately (with local law enforcement assistance) AND levy fines for the infraction if applicable.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Larry

We agree on theory, but not on concept.

Allow me to explain my thinking/experience.

If unknown to anyone responsible (HOA BOD, owner, boss, licensing agency, whatever), someone performs an illegal act but those "responsible" do not know about it. Let us say, for arguement sake, it was done at 3am when we were all asleep and as a result, the place burned down at 5am when were still all asleep.

Scenario 1 of 2: So this guy runs what could be a non-conforming electrical line and "no one knows" as in my 3a versus 5am above. Granted the HOA insurance company will try and back out as it is non-conforming but for sake of discussion who woul you bet on, scumbag attorneys aside?

Scenario 2 of 2: So this guy runs what could be a non-conforming electrical line and someone informs the HOA BOD (like BB5), but the HOA BOD takes no action, or worse, they say it is OK. Then there is an electrical fire well after the BOD was made aware. Granted the HOA insurance company will try and back out but who would you bet on in this case, scumbag attorneys aside?

I do not think we can control/insure against stupidity.....no matter scumbag attorney billable hours.

Only the Captain of a US Navy vessel can be "hung" for actions performed on their ship when they are sleeping.....LOL

Of course, I could be wrong.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Not power company but your areas building or city codes department to report the violation. Since running from that person's house then they should be on the line for it so to speak. Should be a place to call in your phone to report code violations in your locale. The city inspectors can then come out.

John happen to be an Electrician here...

I can not say for sure about the electrical being a code violation for sure as you may be surprised at the rules/codes for running outdoor wiring. It does not need to buried at all times and stapling it may be allowed. It is best for an inpector to come in and evaluate for sure. As there are national codes and local ones that vary for each situation.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BB5 on 07/21/2012 4:37 PM
From reading posts the best way to handle the problem would be to call the power company is this correct ? Several people have been electrocuted in the last few weeks (swimming)because of faulty wiring there are more I'm sure this one just happens to be very close to our dock and where a lot of us swim.

Call the local electrical licensing authority. Village, town, county, etc.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

The only reason I know some about stuff...is having been accused of it...and found guilty....or paid dearly to be found not guilty.....LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We still on for Mexico I assume with that response...LOL!!!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

Ex-wives can be expensive...not that you are not worth it darling...but...LOL

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/21/2012 5:16 PM
Larry

We agree on theory, but not on concept.

Allow me to explain my thinking/experience.

If unknown to anyone responsible (HOA BOD, owner, boss, licensing agency, whatever), someone performs an illegal act but those "responsible" do not know about it. Let us say, for arguement sake, it was done at 3am when we were all asleep and as a result, the place burned down at 5am when were still all asleep.

Scenario 1 of 2: So this guy runs what could be a non-conforming electrical line and "no one knows" as in my 3a versus 5am above. Granted the HOA insurance company will try and back out as it is non-conforming but for sake of discussion who woul you bet on, scumbag attorneys aside?

Scenario 2 of 2: So this guy runs what could be a non-conforming electrical line and someone informs the HOA BOD (like BB5), but the HOA BOD takes no action, or worse, they say it is OK. Then there is an electrical fire well after the BOD was made aware. Granted the HOA insurance company will try and back out but who would you bet on in this case, scumbag attorneys aside?

I do not think we can control/insure against stupidity.....no matter scumbag attorney billable hours.

Only the Captain of a US Navy vessel can be "hung" for actions performed on their ship when they are sleeping.....LOL

Of course, I could be wrong.

John,

My opinion was based on my recollection of a 2003 Arizona Court of Appeals opinion, Clark v. New Magma Irrigation & Drainage District.

In re-reading that opinion while preparing this response, I realized that I remembered it all wrong. Therefore, my previous comments in this thread may be way off base or they may be right on target. I do not know.

BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145

Posted:

The homeowner that has electric from home to dock (no ground fault breaker, etc.)is the Pres. of the HOA. the only codes that might apply are Federal thus the reason for asking I would also think the Ins. company would be a little concerned about the risk this creates. Any electricians out there ? Wire runs from home 100 feet across HOA drive/road and another 75 feet to a dock it is tacked to trees to keep it off the ground. The 75 feet is the easement.

ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165

Posted:

BB5 if you are at the same lake that has had the electrocutions? If so I believe a permit is required from the lake owner before installing a dock and they have requirements for the electrical installations. Also the fire protection districts that surround that lake are doing safety inspections I believe. They may be able to help you enforce code on this.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BB5 on 07/22/2012 3:00 PM
The homeowner that has electric from home to dock (no ground fault breaker, etc.)is the Pres. of the HOA. the only codes that might apply are Federal thus the reason for asking I would also think the Ins. company would be a little concerned about the risk this creates. Any electricians out there ? Wire runs from home 100 feet across HOA drive/road and another 75 feet to a dock it is tacked to trees to keep it off the ground. The 75 feet is the easement.

As far as I know, all code (building, electrical, plumbing, etc.) is local (town, county, maybe even state), but not federal.

Unless maybe on an Indian Reservation.

BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145

Posted:

Chris P Yes same lake and as you know very little in the way of code or enforcement of any that exist. I am not trying to be hard to get along with but would hate to see history repeat itself what a terrible tragedy.

ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165

Posted:

You might be able to turn to the company that owns the lake as they require permits for the dock and electrical work I believe.

http://www.ameren.com/sites/aue/lakeoftheozarks/Pages/DockElectricalInstallations.aspx

http://www.ameren.com/sites/aue/lakeoftheozarks/Pages/PermitProcedure.aspx

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here