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NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
Tim - You wrote on another discussion "You must request to review the documents from your board or your management company.
You are not a client of the insurance company so they will likely not respond to your request. The Association is the client and the Board of Directors are the governing body/executive organ that directs the wishes of the Association."

What would your response be if the BODs would not provide accounting records. Could a homeowners get the records from the accountant? Would what you said apply to this also?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Some records are not for viewing except by board members. Those are collection reports. You can see your own records but not of those of your neighbors. Does this mean having no idea of income? NO/ You can have the amount collected each month but not individual contributions. We let members know our collection rates and the action we were taking to collect but not names. Others will debate this but feel it is a privacy issue.

Expense reports we handed out and discussed at meetings with every member. Those records should be available. You can't undo anything on it but you can look.

Former HOA President
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
In Maryland state law states that financial statements and minutes must be sent within 21 days after receiving a written request. You should check your state laws.
Jeanne
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Nancy,

Since the accountant was hired by the board, he is unlikely to provide records that the board has refused to provide.

Does your state require the association to grant members access to financial or other association records? If so, you will likely have to seek an injunction to require production of the documents. Even if there is no statute addressing this issue, there may common law requiring production of the records. You will almost certainly need the assistance of an attorney to research this.

NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
Melissa I agree with you about individual records. What do you say about a homeowner going to the accountant and obtaining a copy of the year end accounting or Audit without going through the Board because the Board will not give out this information when requested.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Nancy

I believe all owners are entitled to a financial overview but the question is how detailed. Delinquent money (dues) should be listed in amounts, time, etc. but until legal action is taken against a specific owner, the owners name should not be revealed. Melissa and I might can agree to disagree on this.

Another question you asked. While the question was directed to Melissa. Client records are private. Be I the BOD accountant, lawyer, father confessor, etc., you are not my client. The BOD is my client and the records are privvy to them.

NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
John - I am glad that other people responded to my question. I should have stated all other responses appreciated. I thought the BOD worked for the Association members. We elect them to their position and if they don't respond to proper request then we as a member of the Association should be able to obtain the information from the Accountant, Insurance Company etc. as they represent the Association. When the BOD goes to the accountant they represent the Association not the Board of Directors. All papers are in the name of the Association. I've called the insurance co that represents the Assn in the past and they have answered my question. Same with the Assn accountant and I'm not a Director and I told them this when I spoke to them.
This is a very interesting discussion.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyG1 on 07/18/2012 4:57 PM

What would your response be if the BODs would not provide accounting records. Could a homeowners get the records from the accountant? Would what you said apply to this also?

The accountant doesn't work for the member either. Neither does the lawyer, the management company, the landscape company, the trash service, etc. The client for all of these contractors is the Association and they perform services as authorized in the contract or directed by the Board of Directors.

Typically the governing documents and State laws support a members right to review the records of the Association by making a request to the Association or their agent (i.e. the management company or registered agent). The Board may direct (or have already adopted a policy) for the accountant, etc. to allow access to those records by the member.

If the Association (i.e. the Board) refuses to allow a review of the records the only way to force compliance is through pressure from the membership or through the courts.
CaroleJ (Georgia)
Posts: 70
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyG1 on 07/18/2012 6:43 PM
I thought the BOD worked for the Association members. We elect them to their position and if they don't respond to proper request then we as a member of the Association should be able to obtain the information from the Accountant, Insurance Company etc. as they represent the Association. When the BOD goes to the accountant they represent the Association not the Board of Directors. All papers are in the name of the Association.

Nancy, Essentially the BOD works for the Association, which is usually a non-profit corporation, not a representative government. The BOD represents the Association (corporation) as a legal entity and anyone with whom they contract works for the corporation run by the BOD, not the members. Similarly, when the BOD goes to the accountant they go as the legal entity known as the XX HOA. In other words, an HOA is a business and the BOD is obligated to run the business according to state laws, the Declaration and the Bylaws of the business. The fiduciary duties we hear so much about are to the corporation. In Georgia, the Non-Profit Act reads: β€œA director shall discharge his or her duties …In a manner the director believes in good faith to be in the best interests of the corporation.” They are under no legal obligation to "represent" members in the manner most of us think such "representation" would mean, nor should it be take for granted that the best interests of the members and the best interests of the corporation necessarily mean the same thing to each entity.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Nancy

What specific/detailed financial records are you wanting to obtain?

Do you not get an overall financial statement?

Thanks
NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
John - A true year end financial statement. We did not get a 12 month financial statement for the year ending 2011. I wish I could send the report we received to you. The Treasurer will not open her records for income and expenses or will she allow the checkbook stubs to be looked at by a homeowner. There is a lot more involved between this homeowner and the Board, but believe it or not this isn't my battle. I've tried to helped him with questions, this is why I started this discussion. My forum question was seeking thoughts from other people that have had problems looking at HOA records and what their response would be if accounting records were gotten from the accountant without going through the Board. If the records were obtained from the Accountant what could the BOD do to the homeowner?

(This information was gotten after you posted your questions) I asked an Attorney (I've dealt with him before online) and sent him what our Covenants say and he said "Since the covenants expressly state that the books are open for inspection, while the Board may not be happy with being side-stepped, it is still not a formal violation, and therefore I really do not see trouble from them beyond possibly asking not to do it again." Any thoughts on this?

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'd be content with the attorney's opinion. If the accountant is willing to provide the records to you/your friend, wonderful!

What in the world would the Board possibly do given that they refused to provide records that (apparently) your state laws say that you may review? And that were requested in writing?

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