"Hearing" vs. Meeting...

Started by MichelleC7 • 12 replies • 1945 views

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MichelleC7 (California)
Posts: 108

Posted:

Hello all,

I just read a thread here regarding being called to a "hearing" to defend themselves on a claim.

That process I understand..

What I don't understand is WHY this is called a hearing, last time I checked it's not a court of law and there is no jury.. just a group of lay people on the board.

Every time we get a notice ( community ) for issues in our community, it always threatends to be followed up with a hearing if our community fails to adhere ect.

I feel that the word "hearing"automatically puts people on the defense.

Being called to a "meeting" to discuss issues at hand is alot more diplomatic in my eyes.

It's just a pet peeve. Being called to a hearing by a group of neighbors almost has s feeling like it's a lynching mob.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

It's called a hearing because that's how Davis-Stirling refers to it. It is an adversarial proceeding - The Board is accusing you of violating the CC&R's and it is your chance to defend yourself to prevent being fined. A meeting usually implies an open forum with any member allowed to attend.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

You are hereby requested to attend a Discussion of Allegations Meeting Need...DAMN...LOL

MichelleC7 (California)
Posts: 108

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/14/2012 12:20 PM
You are hereby requested to attend a Discussion of Allegations Meeting Need...DAMN...LOL

LOL It just sounds so official, and it's a meeting of neighbors on the board.. LOL

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I think that "hearing" is a word that commonly used in HOA's in CA & maybe elsewhere too. Because it's been in use for a very long time, I don't think we'd be able to change that language.

In CA, hearings are held during executive session, which are closed to homeowners to protect the alleged violators' privacy, and homeowners charged with alleged violations are invited to attend and defend themselves.

In our HOA, we directors, after listening to a homeowner explain her/his side of the story, have occasionally not fined the h'owners. At other times, we've suspended fines pending no further violations of that type within 6 months.

Most of the violations in our HOA involve the alleged violation of our Rules & Regs. In CA, Boards must follow due process. See davis-sterling.com, Main Index, click on Hearings for much more.

Michelle, are you saying that your board sends out notices to the entire HOA warning them that certain violations could result in a call to hearing? I think that might just be an example of good communication from the board to members, perhaps reminding residents of a particular rule that frequently violated. But I'm not sure based on your wording.

We post in a public area a rule that too frequently is violated, often because of owners' or their tenants' ignorance of it.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

It's probably called a hearing because a homeowner has been asked to attend an executive session (meeting) of the board to "hear" the accusations being made, and it is an opportunity for the homeowner to explain, or, have his defense "heard" by the board.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Very nice, Bruce! The process sounds much friendlier when explained as you did.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceF1 on 07/15/2012 5:08 AM
It's probably called a hearing because a homeowner has been asked to attend an executive session (meeting) of the board to "hear" the accusations being made, and it is an opportunity for the homeowner to explain, or, have his defense "heard" by the board.

The problem is that the accusation is being made by board and the board will decide whether the homeowner is guilty. Not exactly an impartial tribunal.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 07/15/2012 11:30 AM

The problem is that the accusation is being made by board and the board will decide whether the homeowner is guilty. Not exactly an impartial tribunal.

True, true.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I haven't thought a lot about it, but it's crossed my mind that the board is both judge & jury because it conducts the hearing and votes on a decision.

Here, the accuser usually is a resident with corroboration required, which usually is by a staffer or surveillance camera(s). And usually--with a couple of exceptions- no owner's invited to hearing until the second alleged violation. 90% of violations are cured following the first warning ("courtesy" letter).

But can anyone think of an alternate way to deal with violations of (sometimes important) rules?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Carol

Have someone else other then the BOD be the initial step. Like the ARC. Then if not satisfied, appeal to the entire BOD. Let the BOD be the final decider.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Carol, I like how Florida sets it up. The Board can issue fines for violations but they must be reviewed by a committee of homeowners before they can be imposed.

A fine or suspension may not be imposed without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Thanks John46 & Glen.

I can see how having the ARC hear the accused and levy fines would work in HOA's that are mainly detached homes. I assume most violations are the type that would be in the ARC's area, e.g., sheds, fences, house colors, etc.

In our high rise HOA, though, we don't experience violations of our ARC guidelines.

So Glen's suggestion would suit us better. It also may suit many HOAs. There could be a "Rules Committee" that follows the FL approach. Per CA civil code, the hearing would be held in executive session to protect the alleged violator's privacy.

We don't actually have any problems with our hearings and no one who's been fined in 5-1/2 years has complained about the process or fines. In CA, h'owners may request an Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR) meeting if they don't agree with the fine.

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