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SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I receieved a letter from my HOA.

Stating that I drove over the sealcoat before it was completely dry. I have to attend the hearing. They said I am invited to this hearing and may produce any statement, evidence or witness on my behalf. I am hereby advised that the board of Directors may consider the imposition of the following sanctions:
1. A fine for the cost of repair work in accordance with the Violation Process and Fine Policy and /or
2. Legal action if required, cost for which will be charged against your account as Special Assesment.

The HOA did a sealcoat asphalt of the street on the complex. They claimed that we drove over it when it wasnt dry yet. The only thing I can think of was the day they were going to do the job my husband's car was park on the driveway and had to leave and drop of my babies at the babysitter. They had not started doing the sealcoating. How can I argue and win this case? when we returned after they finished the people they hired didnt even do a good job. how much will it cost for them to charge us. where thy claimed that we drove over is at a dead end street on my property. it's probably less than 100 ft. Pls give me some feedback on what I should do? i dont have the money to pay for it as I am always short of cash. also I feel that the HOA is just trying to get some money. plus people just drive over it and why does it matter?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sam

Are saying you left before they seal coated? If so, when you returned was the street blocked off to traffic to allow the sealcoat to dry?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Sam,

How were you supposed to know when you could and could not drive on the street? Was there notice before they started and barricades/signs/cones to advise you that you could not drive on it? Why did someone just stand there and watch you drive on the sealcoat instead of asking you not to?

Did the contractor have a security guard or police officer to direct traffic? If not, why not? If so, where was he when you supposedly drove over the sealcoat?

Is there anything in your CC&R's that allows the association to deny you access to the common-area streets?

SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
when my husband left to drop of the babies he says they haven't started the job but then he is not sure. what happenes if we get fine? how mich do u think i would habe to pay?
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
when my husband left to drop of the babies he says they haven't started the job but then he is not sure. what happenes if we get fine? how mich do u think i would habe to pay?
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
They had sent notices that they will be doing this and the cars needs to be outside.  There was no signs/barricades/cones to advisehe cannot drive on it. No one was around when he drove over it. Assuming he did drove over it. 

Towards the afternoon when I got home from work there was a security guard blocking the entrance of the gate. The security guard let us in but we walked inside to get to the complex. As soon I walked in I saw this guy with his truck and I asked him well why was he able to get inside with his truck. He said because he is the one who is working on the sealcoat. 

Regarding the CC&R I haven't looked at it but if it doesnt say that we are allowed  access to the common area streets their arguements would be, they sent out notices that cars needs to be parked outside. 

Do I have any fight in this? 
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS2 on 07/14/2012 9:36 AM
Do I have any fight in this? 

The way I read your statement is that you did not drive on the fresh sealcoat. I would challenge the person who says you did.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sam

Did you or your husband drive on the new sealcoat? If yes, pay for the damage/repair. If not, be prepared to show neither of you did.

At least you are being called to a hearing. That in itself is fair.

SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
lets say we did, will it be alot of money that we have to pay? yes i will challege whoever said it? how should I prepare for this hearing? they said bring evidence, witness etc? how should I start preparing for this?

thank you so much for a quick response. am stress over this as am on a loan modification for my condo.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
If you read between the lines sounds to me like the property did in fact notify the owners. Seems they requested cars be OUTSIDE the property to be sealcoated.

Now this OP's husband doens't really know if he ran over the work or not. Seems pretty easy to know if you did or not.

So the OP has been served with a notice that a hearing would be held. Sounds like this would be your chance to listen to what they beleive happened and then for YOUR husband not you as you were not there to explain what actually took place.

Just what more would you want? IF this work was done and the property covered the costs and your husband did in fact drive over this work before is was able to handle traffic well IMO YOU not the property should cover the costs to repair.

Now as to where your husband was going IMO not relevant.
As to the fact traffic travles over this road well not relevant as that would be AFTER the sealing dries.

IMO not being able to state without a doubt your husband did not drive over the work leaves you responsible for the costs to repiar the damage.

Your suggestion this is an attmept to get money just makes litle sense. I would guess they have beter things to do with their time.

My suggestion next time a notice is sent ou read it carefully and if I is not clear then call the HOA and get an explanation.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
how to prepare:

write down, to the best of your recollection, the events on that date and time.

Husband left driveway at approximately 7:35
Husband saw sealcoat company. Husband chatted with Foreman? (guy in white shirt, red ball cap) who stated that job was "just starting".
Husband drove out of HOA.

Car returned at approximately 1:12 pm. Parked outside area, on Elm street, per security guard direction at barricade (Bob?). Walked into home with groceries.

At 8:45 pm, retrieved car and parked in driveway.

Then, when you know where and when your vehicle was out and about, attend the hearing.

Ask "when did the actual sealcoat start application?" "who saw our vehicle drive over it? What time? What was the make and model of the vehicle so observed. Did they get a license plate? A picture? who was driving it? "

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I think there is a smoking gun here.

That said, I believe driveway sealcoating average cost (no patching, no crack sealing, no edging, no painting lines, blower cleaning only, basic one pass spray coat) is $150.00 to $250.00 per 1000sq ft. Most have about a $100.00 minimum charge.
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
thank you everyone! This hearing thing is all about the money! so what right? people just drive on it and plus it was down perfectly.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sam

Sorry but I think some of us believe the hubby is guilty and you are just trying to avoid it.

If in your heart you know he did not do it. Then fight it.

If not, and the repair is reasonable, then own up and pay to have it fixed. That is all they are asking.

SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Hi Everyone! ok I went and took a picture of the tire tracks and it looks that each driveway has it's own tire track! it's absurd that they are blaming us for this when clearly on each drively the tire tracks clearly goes to each driveway!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sam

Good for you.

Now you are being proactive versus whining....LOL

You may even get me to change my opinion.

You have made a case that just maybe people were allowed to drive on the seacoat before it cured. Granted some of the tracks on the driveways night be darker and some of the impressions in the sealcoat deeper but the fact is it appears vehicles were allowed to drive on it before it fully cured.

Some driveways may have no marks but that could well be no vehicles and/or they came in later, after full cure.

That is my story and I am sticking to it....

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS2 on 07/14/2012 8:50 AM
I receieved a letter from my HOA.

Stating that I drove over the sealcoat before it was completely dry. I have to attend the hearing. They said I am invited to this hearing and may produce any statement, evidence or witness on my behalf. I am hereby advised that the board of Directors may consider the imposition of the following sanctions:
1. A fine for the cost of repair work in accordance with the Violation Process and Fine Policy and /or
2. Legal action if required, cost for which will be charged against your account as Special Assesment.

If, in fact, you did drive over the sealcoat and damage it, it is possible that the property damage provisions of your auto insurance policy (asuming you have such coverage) may cover the cost of any repair, up to the property damage limit of your policy, and subject to any deductible in your policy. Check with your agent to see what coverage you have.
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I don't think there's such coverage for that.

I been planning on how to present the board my evidence. I took some pictures and loaded them on my ipad since it has zoom capability. should I also develop them so they have a hard copy? i dont want to spend money on this accusation.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS2 on 07/14/2012 11:49 PM
I don't think there's such coverage for that.

But, you still ask your insurance agent the question.

If your auto policy has property damage coverage and you skid off the road and into a fence, the insurance pays for the fence. Property damage coverage, if you have it (I do), pays for damage to someone else's property (including the HOA's) caused by your automobile while you are operating it. The property doesn't have to be another motor vehicle.

It never hurts to ask.
NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
There is also coverage under your personal condo policy under the liability section, "property damage to others" there is usually a limit the insurance company will pay. You have nothing to lose by checking with your insurance agency.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS2 on 07/14/2012 11:49 PM
I don't think there's such coverage for that.

I been planning on how to present the board my evidence. I took some pictures and loaded them on my ipad since it has zoom capability. should I also develop them so they have a hard copy? i dont want to spend money on this accusation.

Yes, you should give them hard copies as well. It may cost some money or ink to print them, but hard copies can be attached to the minutes as part of the record.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Sam in addition to the advice you have already received, you should visit davis-stirling.com and read the page about hearings. It will tell you what the Board can do, the rules about witnesses etc. including your rights.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/EnforcementMenu/tabid/686/Default.aspx#axzz20dHhDaWA

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Sam,

After reading this thread I am of the opinion that your board is going after the wrong parties.

It sounds like the contractor showed up with barricades and a security guard to keep cars off the street while the seal coating was in progress but when they were done they packed up their stuff and left. How were homeowners supposed to know that the sealcoat had to dry and when the drying was complete? Was there any notice given to homeowners that there would be a period of time when they could not drive on the street or any signs or barriers to give notice?

At this point it sounds to me like the contractor dropped the ball by removing his equipment and personnel before the sealcoat was dry.

Among other things I would ask for at the hearing is an expert to testify that the sealcoat was, in fact, damaged. I doubt that anyone on your board is qualified to make that judgment. I would also want to call the contractor to testify as to whether there was damage. Once you make it clear to the contractor that he may have neglected to protect the sealcoat, I am sure he will find no damage as he does not want to come back and do the job over.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 07/15/2012 11:14 AM

At this point it sounds to me like the contractor dropped the ball by removing his equipment and personnel before the sealcoat was dry.

Not only the contractor but the Board for failing to make sure something (barricades, tape, etc.) was to be in place for the necessary time. The contract might have said that was the responsibility of the Association.
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Larry,

You are right but of course the HOA probably thinks it's easier to blame as. as a matter of fact I walked around a couple of streets on the complex and I see alot of tire tracks. How should I mention about this on the meeting? or how should I present and mention this?
ChristinaR (Maryland)
Posts: 99
Posted:
In your hearing, you should be as respectful as possible. Don't try to accuse them of 'just out for money' and don't accuse other people. The best way to handle a hearing and look professional is to keep others out of it.

Ask them for the evidence against you. Then you can show them the tire tracks into other driveways, but I would either make sure the picture does not include house numbers, just enough to show that it is pictures of different homes. You don't want to go down as the person who supplied the HOA with evidence that they should be paying damage repairs as well.

Most hearings are to determine if there will be a fine and if so, how much. The BOD usually has the ability to waive a fine. The more respectful you are, the better your chances of getting the lesser. If you run in there throwing around accusations and being rude, they will likely throw the book at you.
SamS2 (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thank you all for your advice. I really appreciate it.

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