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EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170
Posted:
I'd like some input or advice on this subject. This matter is something that other members of our HOA (this is TX) are concerned about but it's a big battle between the board, members, swim team, (outsiders have stayed out of the fight because they know they have no say), etc. But homeowners (payers of dues) don't have much say either. Our homeowners association has a board of 9 members (I was on it for five years). The HOA has never sponsored, but has allowed the swim team (ST) to use the association's pool for practices (when homeowners are not using it) and for meets (limited) on Monday afternoons when the pool would be closed after having been cleaned/shocked the night before anyway, therefore no homeowners are using it. However, the ST, thanks to a group of militants has become a large group now, but ONLY because they've recruited and encouraged from outside of the subdivision in order to stay large enough to stay in a certain division in order to keep the practices and meets closer to the area. The problem in our sub is that children are getting older and older and the homeowners are getting older and older and there isn't that much interest in the ST except by a few who are just out in left field--in fact, they DO NOT request permission from the board for use of the pool anymore, do not abide by the board's request for an insurance certificate, do not give the board a list of the swimmers, per the board's request, and if a homeowner has requested use of the facilities (paid for by that homeowner as part of their membership), they are refused use of the pool/clubhouse/park or whatever because a ST member or outsider on the ST has priority. It is an awful mess and has caused much contention in the association. In fact, a year or so ago, a homeowner requested the facilities for the first time since they had lived in the HOA (over 10 years) to have a once-in-a-lifetime celebration, and because it was at the time of a ST practice, they were refused the use of the facilities. The number from outside (of swimmers) has increased to over 30% being from outside and paying nothing for use of our facilites, yet, if we, as members have not paid our dues, we cannot vote nor use the facilities--this is outrageous. A lot of the problems started when ST parents got on the board and turned it into a social club instead of an HOA Board and they do what they want, when they want with the other member's monies. It has become dangerous for people who do not agree(and I will not go into that detail here or yet). I have searched everywhere for any similar situations, but think we are unique (no one has written about it anyway).

These are the questions--is there a law about this or some law that can be used by those of us who are trying to have controls put on it, can be use to at least get the rules the board set forth enforced? (The board set up a policy about the rules and the present and now almost former president--has moved and still is pres.--never had the policy signed or envoked because of nepotism)?
Isn't this like some are giving a gift of our facilities to outsiders and using our monies unscrupulously?
What can be done? Would a class action suit help with this matter? The board has now spent the majority of the reserves on totally redoing the pool and facilities, but it is not for the members of the HOA, it's for the ST and outsiders on it. It has made a lot of people on fixed incomes and others (about three fourths of the members) very angry and I do not blame them. But hands are tied and these people committed fraud (lied) about the state of the association in order to get on the Board and do these things. What can be done?
EdR
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
I'm no legal nor insurance expert, but my opinion is...
The insurance angle is interesting. For any suit brought against the HOA, the homeowners may become liable for amounts not covered by insurance (over the policy amount, deductible, etc).

Allowing non-owners use of any amenities, especially a pool, seems to raise the risk of having an injury suit against the HOA, if someone is ever hurt. So, all the owners in your community are at increased liability because of the outside use of the pool. You may want to speak to your HOA insurance agent to see what the coverage is for such a situation and what kind of liability you are exposed to.

If it becomes clear this really is a problem, your neighbors should know what their risk is and they may become concerned enough to help you get the rules changed.

In general, the pool is a shared asset of the community and it seems improper to allow outside use unless the community has agreed to it.

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CaryL (Arizona)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Check with your insurance company and also your CC&R's. If your insurance company states you're liable for any injuries, bar them from using your pool...and fast! Also, you might have backing in your CC&R's. Ours specifically states that our pool is for the residents only and up to two guests.
LisaB (California)
Posts: 1
Posted:
WE have 2 pools in our Assoc. We have been approached by outside seniors to have ecercise classes, also the public for teen swim and baby swim. The answer is no! Sounds like you need to put an extra chain and lock on your gate. This is a very effective remedy. Contact the ST and tell them that they are no longer permitted to use your pool. Lock it up and if for some strange reason they are inside your gated pool...pull the plug! The police can aresst them right on the spot. We did this and it worked wonderfuly!
SoniaW (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Did you ever get this issue solved? If so, how? I have a similar, although much less severe situation in my neighborhood.
EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170
Posted:
SoniaW:
Actually, no, it isn't resolved. However, I've run out of steam in dealing with it for now. Our assn. has spent all monies on the pool and the whole assn. is suffering now because they've had to cut back on everything else: landscaping (it looks awful); they've cut out the newsletter (which had been in existence for almost 20 years); the overall look of the neighborhood has gone downhill; there are deed restriction violations and allowance of never-before-approved or allowed renovations to homes, etc. Basically, what has happened, is that the board has allowed the management company to have complete control and the MC does not communicate with the board nor members and the board does not communicate with members. In fact, the generic newsletter that the MC is now putting out is full of ads, all benefitting the MC, and, there is NO mention of a director's name or anyone IN the assn. to call about anything. Bad business in my opinion, but the average person doesn't care or see this as a problem--they just keep violating rules.

My plan, however,is to (and I've been keeping a list of the violations, discrepancies, unlawful activities, financial problems, etc.) prepare a letter to the board and to recommend that the assn. be given a "voluntary" status. That way, those who aren't allowed use of the pool, don't have to pay for it. If the ST runs out of money to maintain the pool, they can start charging the outsiders, same as a country club. It probably is a bad idea to be voluntary instead of mandatory, but it might get their attention if they thought 75% of the assn. were in favor of this. These days, money is hard-earned and hard to come by, and I don't mean to sound greedy, but I barely have enough to support my family and pay our dues; I certainly cannot afford to pay for so-called amenities that I am refused so that outside non-payers get first choice and usually the only choice.

I'd like to hear what the situation is in your assn., if you don't mind. Maybe there is an angle that could give me some help with this one. Personally, I think the situation is about to take care of itself because a group of unhappy assn. members are about to let the rest of the members know WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON. They've had their heads in the sand, but I think if given a chance to not pay dues, they'll listen.
EdR
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
We have a "pool attendant" that basically babysits the people in the pool, she is NOT a lifeguard and signs are posted saying so. Our HOA issues pool passes every year, for $10 per family of 4, to those that want to use it and the pool attendant keeps it in an index card box at the pool. If she doesn't have our pass in the box, we can't go in to swim. Also if we bring a guest, they must pay a $1 to swim. I have suggested to our board to change the gate/lock to the pool so that homeowners can have their own unduplicatable key, raise the pool pass to $20, and eliminate the pool attendant (save money). They have denied my suggestion due to them giving up "control". Sorry I went off on a tangent.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
EdR,

I just read all the previous responses to your post. I agree with a lot of which was suggested. In our community we have a magnetic key card. Every homeowner receives a card once they have paid there dues. If you don’t pay your dues then you can’t get in, legally.

We do, have trouble monitoring who has accessed the pool facility legitimately (with a card) and who hasn’t (jumped the fence). It’s a far cry from the vandalism and destruction it once was. When all said and done, it would cost us hundreds of dollars, each and every time vandalism struck the pool facility. Not to mention the time involved in the clean up process alone.

I had made this recommendation to my board as a solution to our vandalism problem, which was a response to my post earlier in the year from one of the HOATalk members!

Perhaps you could put together a spread sheet showing the liability issue if someone on the ST was to be seriously get injured or even worse fatally, it’s not something to take lightly! You would be educating the board and the community on how to avoid this potential disaster. Your recommendation would be in the best interest of the community. Nothing selfish about that!

It’s a good thing that the pool facility as available to the “ST” members or otherwise. Maybe if they would like to pay the association for the additional insurance, maybe this would be an option for them.
That would be my main concern as a homeowner.

I would assume that the parents of the swimmers would be offended if you were to ban them from the pool facilities, especially if they have as much rights to be there as the next person.

Maybe they will understand that this is not the association discriminating again outside residents, it’s a liability issue.

Keep us updated
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

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