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RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Sorry for starting a new post but I have a different concern now.

I saw a prior post on this topic and the bottom line was bylaws define operations while CCR are tied to the deed

So what happens when the two do not agree?
Example(s):
Our bylaws where changed from 3 members to 5 members for the BODs

CCR states:
4.6 Board of Directors.
The Board of Directors of the Association (the “Board”) shall consist of three (3) persons.

Bylaws:
These Bylaws may be amended by
by a vote of at least a majority of the Directors at any meeting of the Directors duly called for that
purpose, providing notice of the meeting and the proposed amendments shall be given to the Members
within ten thirty (30) days following the meeting, and subject to the right of a majority of the Owners
to change such action; or
(b) at the annual meeting of the Members, by a majority vote of each class of Members who are voting in
person or by proxy.

CCR state:
12.4 Amendment

12.4.1 The covenants and restrictions of this Declaration shall run with and bind the land in perpetuity. This Declaration may be amended by an instrument signed by no less than seventy-five percent (75%) of the Unit Owners, provided that Declarant, without the consent of the Owners, may amend the Subdivision Plan during the Development Period if such amendment is approved by the Township and does not substantially affect the property rights of any Unit Owner.

Bylaws:
Section 3. Conflict-
In the case of any conflict between the Articles of Incorporation and these Bylaws, the Articles shall control; in
the case of any conflict between the Declaration and these Bylaws, the Declaration shall control.

All of this tells me since the bylaws say 5 person BOD and CCR says 3 and the bylaws defer to the CCR when in conflict - the current BOD has too (two) many members

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Federal Law
State Law
Local Law
CCRs
Art. of Inc.
By-Laws

in that order

you are correct ... too many
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It looks like someone wanted to increase the size of the board (which was a good idea) but failed to change the proper document. Our CC&Rs do not mention anything about the Board of Directors. This info is contained in our Articles of Incorporation which state:

"The affairs of this Association shall be managed by a Board of not more than five (5) nor less than three (3) Directors. The number of Directors may be changed by amendment of the Bylaws of the Association."

That said, you first need to confirm if a conflict really exists. To confirm conflicts, you need to look at all applicable laws as well. Expecting that you are incorporated, PA Corporate laws would also apply. Per those laws, specifically § 1723 (which has controlling power over the CC&Rs and actually defer to the Bylaws):

§ 1723. Number of directors.
(a) General rule.--The board of directors of a business corporation shall consist of one or more members. The number of directors shall be fixed by, or in the manner provided in, the bylaws. If not so fixed, the number of directors shall be the same as that stated in the articles or three if no number is so stated.

Therefore, an argument could be made that since PA law defers to the Bylaws, in this instance only, even if there is a conflict between the CC&Rs and Bylaws, the Bylaws are the controlling document. Perhaps, this is what people were thinking when the Bylaws were amended.

Mind you, an issue only really becomes an issue if the decision or process is challenged.

Obviously, the proper thing to do is change the CC&Rs as this will remove any confusion. Since you are still under declarant control, this should be fairly easy. You will need to hold the meeting but the declarant typically has the controlling votes to make the decision.
RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2012 8:39 AM
It looks like someone wanted to increase the size of the board (which was a good idea) but failed to change the proper document. Our CC&Rs do not mention anything about the Board of Directors. This info is contained in our Articles of Incorporation which state:

"The affairs of this Association shall be managed by a Board of not more than five (5) nor less than three (3) Directors. The number of Directors may be changed by amendment of the Bylaws of the Association."

That said, you first need to confirm if a conflict really exists. To confirm conflicts, you need to look at all applicable laws as well. Expecting that you are incorporated, PA Corporate laws would also apply. Per those laws, specifically § 1723 (which has controlling power over the CC&Rs and actually defer to the Bylaws):

§ 1723. Number of directors.
(a) General rule.--The board of directors of a business corporation shall consist of one or more members. The number of directors shall be fixed by, or in the manner provided in, the bylaws. If not so fixed, the number of directors shall be the same as that stated in the articles or three if no number is so stated.

Therefore, an argument could be made that since PA law defers to the Bylaws, in this instance only, even if there is a conflict between the CC&Rs and Bylaws, the Bylaws are the controlling document. Perhaps, this is what people were thinking when the Bylaws were amended.

Mind you, an issue only really becomes an issue if the decision or process is challenged.

Obviously, the proper thing to do is change the CC&Rs as this will remove any confusion. Since you are still under declarant control, this should be fairly easy. You will need to hold the meeting but the declarant typically has the controlling votes to make the decision.

I am going to look into the declarant control - they have not been at an HOA meeting in two years nor ask any questions and have voted one time per lot still owned on prior changed to the CCR

Any tips on where I can start to look
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Randy,

In my opinion, somebody obviously goofed when they wrote the CCRs (Declaration). Typically, the CCRs should say nothing about the size of the board. That's a topic usually covered in the bylaws.

To eliminate the confusion, I would recommend amending the CCRs to delete any reference to the size of the board. That will also make things easier in the future since only one document (the bylaws) will contain any reference to the size of the board, and it will be consistent with prevailing law.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Correction, the actual statute is PA § 5723 (nonprofit corporations).

It's the same language on the number of directors [emphasis added]:

§ 5723. Number of directors.

The board shall consist of one or more members. Except as otherwise provided in this section, the number of directors shall be fixed by, or in the manner provided in, the bylaws; or if not so fixed the number of directors shall be the same as that stated in the articles or three if no number is so stated.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As for declarant control, check PA HOA laws (as there may have been a time line for the transfer of control which passed) and your governing documents. Look for classes of members (likely in the Articles of Incorporation). Typically one class is reserved for the declarant and one for homeowners.

Since you say the declarant is paying assessments and only voting 1 vote per lot, it's likely that you are under membership control.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
PA laws for PLANNED COMMUNITIES are under Title 68, chapters 51-54 (scroll down the page)

Hope this helps,

Tim
RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2012 8:51 AM
Correction, the actual statute is PA § 5723 (nonprofit corporations).

It's the same language on the number of directors [emphasis added]:

§ 5723. Number of directors.

The board shall consist of one or more members. Except as otherwise provided in this section, the number of directors shall be fixed by, or in the manner provided in, the bylaws; or if not so fixed the number of directors shall be the same as that stated in the articles or three if no number is so stated.

These were all done by the developer in 2001

Does a 26 page CCR seems long?
Title:
Declarations of Restrictions, Covenants, Conditions, and Easements
for the Estates of ...
Table of Contents:
Article 1 Definitions
Article 2 Property Rights
Article 3 Reserved Rights and Obligations of Declarant
Article 4 Membership and Voting Rights
Article 5 Covenant for Maintenance Assessments
Article 6 Insurance
Article 7 Maintenance by Association
Article 8 Maintenance By Owners of Units
Article 9 Architectural and Environmental Review
Article 10 Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions
Article 11 Conservation Easements
Article 12 General Provisions

Filed with the county by the builder on 2001.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB6 on 07/12/2012 9:12 AM
Does a 26 page CCR seems long?

Not to me.

Our Declaration is 53 pages: 27 Articles, plus exhibits that are not part of the 53 pages.
RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
How about this one (not a current issue):

Township says "sheds" need to be 10 feet off boundary line but CCR require 20 feet?

Thanks
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB6 on 07/12/2012 5:19 PM
How about this one (not a current issue):

Township says "sheds" need to be 10 feet off boundary line but CCR require 20 feet?

Thanks

That is not a conflict.

Typically an Association requirement can be more restrictive than a city/county requirement unless there is language in the statute that specifically overrides a governing document.

The owner must comply with the more restrictive requirement in order to comply with both.

Example: If the CC&Rs said 5 foot set back and the county said 10 feet, even though approval from the Association would be provided, a permit from the county would be denied until the individual agreed to a 10 foot setback.

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