JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Not sure how to setup a poll..but do you consider Davis-Stirling doing more good then harm..or is it more harm then good?
Opinions please.
Thanks.
Opinions please.
Thanks.
A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
Davis-Stirling
Started by JohnC46 • 11 replies • 1864 views
💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
John,
Having lived two very unpleasant years in California, what I have seen of Davis-Sterling seems typical of the Golden State. That is, good intentions run amok.
Having lived two very unpleasant years in California, what I have seen of Davis-Sterling seems typical of the Golden State. That is, good intentions run amok.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As Larry pointed out, many HOA laws start out with good intentions. Then as politics come into play, the final version and/or the implementation of those laws typically do not achieve the goals of the good intentions.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Davis-Stirling is just a meeting method. There are other types of meeting methods out there. It is just the Davis-Stirling format/arrangement works best for HOA's. A HOA can use other methods but due to how the rules are written in some states the Davis-Stirling is used. I studied a varied amount of meeting methods in college. Davis-Stirling is basically the "Inventors" of this meeting type and thus named after them.
Former HOA President
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posts: 179
Posted:
It has its good points and weak points but I find that it has very little teeth in the way of enforcement for HOA's who have gone bad. Additionally, it is one size fits all model which does not work. You need to account for small HOA's and large HOA's. We are an HOA of 8 units and the ability to follow, understand, and comply with it is very tough.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posts: 562
Posted:
Davis-Stirling, while not perfect, is still the model for legislation that can protect the average Condo/HOA owner from predatory practices. What it needs is more enforcement capability such as prohibitive fines that will really prevent predatory attorney/manager/board practices.
Jeanne
Jeanne
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Look at the source of the legislation. The same legislators that can't balance a budget and have California in a $9B+ shortfall. I'm also sure they don't follow what they preach. David, you're right, there should be accomodations for different size HOA's. One size does not fit all.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I've only lived in one HOA, this one, in one state, Calif. I've served on the board for 5-1/2 years. What I really like about D-S are, as Jeanne points out, the protections and rights that owners have. There were and still are abusive and ignorant boards, but D-S shows us Owners what's possible. If everyone here who has a Mgmnt. Co, would make certain that the contract states that the MC will NOT follow any board directions that oppose the state laws or gov. docs, owners would further be protected from nasty boards such as we had here for a few years.
I like:
the required 4-day posting of open meeting agendas-- agendas that cannot be changed at the whim of a board during a meeting.
Clear cut election procedures
Owners' rights to inspect almost all HOA records
The Open Meeting Act, which allows owners to see and hear the decision-making process of the board; not just watch decisions be mouthed that obviously were arrived at in advance of the meeting.
The requirement that HOAs set up fining procedures and guarantee due process.
I don't like:
The new rental limitations law that's embedded in D-S, but was crafted by the Calif. Assoc. of Realtors (CAR)
(Btw, Richard, the primary author of D-S in 1986, Larry Sterling, is a conservative republican. Just saw him speak recently and he says that the D-S Act is being re-written so that it's more coherent--too may add ons over the years.)
I like:
the required 4-day posting of open meeting agendas-- agendas that cannot be changed at the whim of a board during a meeting.
Clear cut election procedures
Owners' rights to inspect almost all HOA records
The Open Meeting Act, which allows owners to see and hear the decision-making process of the board; not just watch decisions be mouthed that obviously were arrived at in advance of the meeting.
The requirement that HOAs set up fining procedures and guarantee due process.
I don't like:
The new rental limitations law that's embedded in D-S, but was crafted by the Calif. Assoc. of Realtors (CAR)
(Btw, Richard, the primary author of D-S in 1986, Larry Sterling, is a conservative republican. Just saw him speak recently and he says that the D-S Act is being re-written so that it's more coherent--too may add ons over the years.)
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Carol,
There are a number of things I like about the D-S Act. The problem, in my opinion, is the wrong people are crafting the legislation. The election procedure, on its own works good, but used in conjunction with existing Corporation Code and Bylaws make the interpretation a mess. This has to do with cumulative voting and recalls. I have personally seen how a attorney mis-interprets how ballots are used in determining quorum and adjourning meetings.
What is a great asset is Davis-Stirling.com (which Larry Stirling is associated with). It is invaluable as it puts what an attorney wrote in plain English with great examples.
PS..While Larry Stirling did co-author the bill, Gray Davis was his partner in crime. No comment needed.
There are a number of things I like about the D-S Act. The problem, in my opinion, is the wrong people are crafting the legislation. The election procedure, on its own works good, but used in conjunction with existing Corporation Code and Bylaws make the interpretation a mess. This has to do with cumulative voting and recalls. I have personally seen how a attorney mis-interprets how ballots are used in determining quorum and adjourning meetings.
What is a great asset is Davis-Stirling.com (which Larry Stirling is associated with). It is invaluable as it puts what an attorney wrote in plain English with great examples.
PS..While Larry Stirling did co-author the bill, Gray Davis was his partner in crime. No comment needed.
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posts: 179
Posted:
For California HOATalk participants how many of you would want the rental restriction removed?
How many would want a cap placed on rentals in HOA's that correspond with bank/FHA/Freddie/Fannie requirements so no one is harmed by over rented properties?
How many think 25% is an acceptable level?
As an example, we have 4 out of 8 units rented with 2 more units discussing rentals. We can't stop the additional 2 if they want to rent but here is the problem we will be 75% rentals which means a lot of problems. Additionally, our CC&R's state 3 people need to be on the Board and none of the 4 current rentals want to be on Board and I don't know if after the other 2 go to rental if the owners will want to be on Board. Problem.
Bottom line - excessive rentals in HOA's is a big problem and want to know your ideas and if we have any recourse. Maybe Carol can talk to Larry? LOL
How many would want a cap placed on rentals in HOA's that correspond with bank/FHA/Freddie/Fannie requirements so no one is harmed by over rented properties?
How many think 25% is an acceptable level?
As an example, we have 4 out of 8 units rented with 2 more units discussing rentals. We can't stop the additional 2 if they want to rent but here is the problem we will be 75% rentals which means a lot of problems. Additionally, our CC&R's state 3 people need to be on the Board and none of the 4 current rentals want to be on Board and I don't know if after the other 2 go to rental if the owners will want to be on Board. Problem.
Bottom line - excessive rentals in HOA's is a big problem and want to know your ideas and if we have any recourse. Maybe Carol can talk to Larry? LOL
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Larry Sterling's own personal account 2 weeks ago of the 1986 start of the Davis-Sterling legislation is that he was advised to get a co-author who was a democrat. Davis agreed so long as his name was first. According to Sterling, Davis had very, very little to do with writing the legislation.
About 150 board members of SoCal HOA's attended the educational symposium. No one complained about D-S either in casual conversations before the meeting, nor during it. Adrian (sp.?) Adams, one of the attorneys who has the davis-sterling.com web site, also spoke. For a history of Davis-Sterling, go to that site, Main Index, etc.
When the new election requirements were placed into D-S in mid '06, our then-new MC crafted election rules for our HOA and we've had no problems at all with interpretation.
About 150 board members of SoCal HOA's attended the educational symposium. No one complained about D-S either in casual conversations before the meeting, nor during it. Adrian (sp.?) Adams, one of the attorneys who has the davis-sterling.com web site, also spoke. For a history of Davis-Sterling, go to that site, Main Index, etc.
When the new election requirements were placed into D-S in mid '06, our then-new MC crafted election rules for our HOA and we've had no problems at all with interpretation.
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posts: 179
Posted:
add recourse by way of legislation. 2 of our Board, me wanting, want to keep rental capabilities to protect themselves in the future if they want to rent and not caring on the implications of such a move to our property and property values.
🎯 You've read this entire discussion
Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:
- ✓ Ask follow-up questions
- ✓ Share your experience
- ✓ Get expert advice
- ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in here