Need to vent about homeowners and twp

We had been a very informal HOA but now that we want to get things right we are getting flack.

One homeowner decided to put a fence in that crosses over a utility right of way and when they spoke to the then HOA and ARC made no mention of it nor did the old group ask for documents required.

This same person (a) then filed a complaint about their neighbor (b) not maintaining the land behind B's fence.

B's fence is on their property line and the land behind it is a local utility companies property. We called the utility and they tell us no problem we can get it (they also DID cleaned it up) and I asked if they knew about A's fence and was told yes and we sent them a letter that it would be OK.

I asked A if we could get a copy of the letter for our records and get told:
"Regarding our agreement about our fence with CWA, that is an agreement between CWA and us and does not affect the HOA at all. If you would like a letter of permission, please contact CWA, who I am sure will tell you it is confidential account information."

I explained to them that as far as we know your fence is a violation since it crosses your property line and your shed is a violation since it is with in 10 feet of your property line BUT if we can see your agreement maybe this can be fixed - btw the old group OKed the shed and fence without getting any plans for them!

Our rules state:
"nor shall any work be commenced or performed which may result in a change or exterior appearance of any Structure, until the plans and specifications showing the nature, kid, shape, dimension, material, floor plans, color scheme, location, exterior plans and details, paving plans and location, landscaping details, proposed topographical changes, and proposed tree removal, together with the estimated cost of said work and the Owner’s proposed construction schedule, and together with a designation of the party or parties to perform the work, have been submitted to and the Committee indicates approval in writing on said plans. Said approval must be obtained prior to seeking a building permit from the Township."

A is now looking to do a pool and sent us an e-mail to that effect. When I asked for plans for this project I get

"Our measurements and plans are well within the guidelines of the HOA and the township, as is our notification to the HOA. I do not have official drawings yet, but I will provide them to the HOA as soon as I get them from the builder. "

My reply:
Homeowners do not determine if something is within the guidelines or not, the ARC does. The ARC should be in contact with you about what they need for their review and verify it complies. So a compliance letter can be submitted to the township for your permit. This is done to protect all parties involved now and in the future. SEE BELOW

The bottom line is we have a person getting township permits for work without ARC review and per our Declarations, Covenants and Restrictions.

Township tells me they have no authority to enforce HOA rules (no issue with that) and could get in trouble for withholding a permit on HOA basis. Now I have an issue - they will issue a permit for stuff NOT ALLOWED in the Declarations, Covenants and Restrictions.

When did this fence and shed go up?

Oh, cute!

Hmmmmm, didn't you say

"nor shall any work be commenced or performed which may result in a change or exterior appearance of any Structure, until the plans and specifications showing the nature, kid, shape, dimension, material, floor plans, color scheme, location, exterior plans and details, paving plans and location, landscaping details, proposed topographical changes, and proposed tree removal, together with the estimated cost of said work and the Owner’s proposed construction schedule, and together with a designation of the party or parties to perform the work, have been submitted to and the Committee indicates approval in writing on said plans. Said approval must be obtained prior to seeking a building permit from the Township."

Well, there it is. The rule says the homeowner must submit the plans for approval prior to seeking a building permit from the Township. That's not subject to interpretation either. There it is, in black-and-white. The homeowner didn't follow the rule.

I could see that thinking except

Article 1
Definitions

1.1.16 “Structure”. Any thing or device the placement of which upon the Property (or any part thereof) may affect the appearance of the Property (or any part thereof) including, by way of illustration and not limitation, any building, trailer, garage, porch, shed, springhouse, greenhouse, bath house, covered or uncovered patio, swimming pool, barbecue installation, fence, clothesline, radio, television or other antenna, satellite dish, statuary, fence, curbing, paving, wall, roadway, walkway, exterior light, sign or any temporary or permanent living quarters or any other temporary or permanent improvement made to the Property or any part thereof. “Structure” shall also mean (i) any excavation, fill ditch, diversion, dam or other thing or device which affects or alters the natural flow of surface water from, upon or across the Property, or which affects or alters the flow of any waters in any natural or artificial stream, wash or drainage channel from, upon or across the Property, and (ii) any change in the grade of the Property (or any part thereof) of more than six (6) inches from that existing as of the date hereof.

I moved in here 4 years ago and read this like crazy to make sure WE know what we could get into with an HOA and I was able to the HOA rules to actually reduce the price since I was giving up certain property rights.

No different lot and homeowner just a bad week!

Lets see, Homeowner is required to get prior approval. Per your post, prior approval was provided. Homeowner installed shed/fence per approval.

New Board knows about approval but wants to overturn it because per the rules the previous board should not have approved the request.

Sounds like the issue is with the Association and not with the member. At this point if this board wants to force compliance, they will likely have to make some sort of deal because it appears procedures were followed.

We currently are not looking to over turn their old work BUT get from them the proper documents they had a responsibility and the ARC and HOA can request so records are complete and accurate.

I also found out today the fence they did install violates township rules as it does not meet this TOWNSHIP requirement:

C. All fence posts and structural members shall face inward and not be exposed to
neighboring properties.

I also wonder if our current board could raise an issue with the shed and fence:
1. The approvals were from an HOA member not an ARC member

2. They homeowner never provided full and complete plans which would mean our 60 day review has not started yet:
"In the event the Committee fails to approve or disapprove such design and location in writing within sixty (60) days after full and complete plans and specifications have been submitted to it, approval will be satisfied under this Article 9.3."

My biggest advice is if an HOA has been ran ad hoc DO NOT TRY to get it right as you will only be called:
A bully and Unfair

"I fail to see why such a problem is being made by the HOA. If we are being unfairly and discriminately, that is an entirely different conversation we will be having.

We look forward to a continued relationship with the HOA and will await our letters for our existing structures and the pool."

Thanks and that is some excellent input!

This forum is great!

At a BOD and ARC meeting this past week I brought up the idea of doing yearly inspections so members know all are treated equal and in the hope it would cut down on petty neighbor vs. neighbor stuff - Got these ideas from another forum here - and it was not received too well - my impression from them was it will be more work and but "us" at odds with more people

I guess I need to do more sales pitches!

Thanks for all the input

I can understand those concerns.

Our documents require: The Architectural Control Committee is to assure that the property shall always be maintained in a manner: (i) providing for visual harmony and soundness of repair.

Per the documents definitions, "the property" includes all lots. Therefore, the committee uses the annual inspection to comply with this requirement of the CC&Rs.

As for a selling point, I've attached an article one of our committee members wrote for our newsletter. Feel free to modify and/or use it. Their is another article that I think is better. If I can find it, I'll attach it later.

Hope this helps,

Tim

Randy

I guess I am a little confused. On one hand you say you do not want to go after the guy with the shed and fence then on the other hand you sound like you want to.

Exactly what do you want to do about him and the association in general?

It appears your docs only reference home/structure modifications as in part of/attached to the house, nothing about out structures (sheds) and/or fences. It might well be time for the BOD and/or the ARC to tighten these procedures up.

Hope this helps.

Randy,

Our Association does something similar. The application for sheds,decks or major landscape changes requires signatures from neighbors on each side and (if the change is in the back yard) directly behind you. Same type of thing, not an approval but notification that you submitted the request. Then if the neighbor wants, they can raise concerns to the ACC.

Sorry to kick this back up but I am trying to get a good understanding of what COULD cause "closed" issues to re-open.

The CCR require person get approval for fence

They asked via e-mail to install a white vile picket fence were sent an OK on this

Fence goes up

Township requires fence posts and members face in so not viable via a neighbor

CCR state "Any improvement, construction, or other development by an Owner shall be subject to any applicable Township regulations and ordinances in additional to any other provisions of this Article."

Would this be cause for the ARC or HOA to come back as the fence is non-compliant with the township

This homeowner has made a few enemies and we really do not want to get involved but if someone brings a legit claim we may be stuck and this looks like a potential way for it to happen

Thanks

No.

It's not the Associations responsibility to enforce Federal, State, County or City laws/codes/ordinances.

The Association has a very specific purpose - to oversee the contract between the members (the CC&Rs) and to maintain the common area and amenities. That's it.

They are not a mediator between neighbors.
They are not the local police department.
They are not the local zoning board.
They are not the fire Marshall
They are not something more than what is outlined within the Articles of incorporation and only have the authority given by the CC&Rs and State laws.

Just as an Association must comply with Federal, State, etc. laws, a member of an Association must comply with all of them as well. It's the members responsibility to know those laws, get city/county permits as required, etc.

If your application doesn't have the following phrase, you should change the application so it does:

The homeowners acknowledge that he/she is aware and understands the following:

• Approval of any project by the Association does not waive the necessity of obtaining the required governmental permits.

• Obtaining a governmental permit does not waive the need for Association approval.

• Nothing contained herein shall be construed to represent that alteration to lots or buildings, in accordance with these plans, shall not violate any of the provisions of local building and Zoning Codes to which the above property is subject. Further, nothing contained herein shall be construed as a waiver or modification of any said restrictions.

• Where required, building permits shall be obtained prior to the start of any construction. Nothing contained herein shall be construed as a waiver of said requirement.