6 ft privacy/stockade style fencing and proeprty value impact

Started by DaveC6 • 10 replies • 2851 views

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DaveC6 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 76

Posted:

We have rules in place regarding stockade style fencing not being allowed. This rule has not been enforced and we now have a number of homes with 6 ft privacy fences. One of our main intersections has three of the four corner lots with 6 ft privacy fences. I am concerned that someone driving into our community might be put off by the 6 ft fencing and it could have a negative impact on property values. FWIW, we are the only HOA within a reasonable distance that has chosen to allow this type of fence and in this quantity.

I am less concerned about the 6 ft privacy fences in backyards but honestly believe our community entrance begin dominated by a wall of fences on entry adds no value to the community.

I am no longer on the board but the president has agreed along with most board members to listen to revisions to our rules regarding fencing. My question is has anyone ever documented impact of property values when 6 ft privacy fences are SOP? It might help me to make my case for fences of a lower height

I am not anti-fencing but I do favor lower fences and a more open design such as shadowbox or picket style. We have three ponds and m,any of the fences are now blocking views of the ponds for other homeowners.

I have started referring to our community as Fort Apache.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

My first question would be to check the by-laws or the charter of your HOA, and see if it says that the function of the HOA is to protect property values. If it does, then I would inquire of a random sample of realtors (say, at least 10% of those active in your city) if they have evidence of fences (as you describe them) impacting property values. Perhaps a questionairre can be created, and sent out to your sample. If you really wish to do the process well, skip the realtors, and do a random sample of potential buyers in the community.

Alternately, if your by-laws or charter say nothing about your HOA/Board being responsible for property values, then just stick to doing what it does say the HOA should do... which may well be enforcing CC&R's. However, it seems as if boards have decided that this particular CC&R isn't worthy of enforcement.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Dave

Fences were a constant headache in my former stand alone home HOA. Not sure I can help but it seems one main difference we had was we only allowed backyard fencing. Meaning the fence could not be forward of the back edge of your house. Only exception was it could be somewhat forward to align with the back of the house next door. This was so the connection of fences between the houses were even as in line with each other.

Thus we had no homes with a fence in the front yard nor no lots/homes surrounded by a fence.

It seems to me the cat might already be out of the bag in your neighborhood. If so I believe the only restrictions you could put in would be have to grandfather in existing fences. This would only change the Fort Apache look over time.

Hope this helps.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveC6 on 07/11/2012 5:34 AM
We have rules in place regarding stockade style fencing not being allowed. This rule has not been enforced and we now have a number of homes with 6 ft privacy fences.

Is approval required before installing a fence?
If approval is required, was it obtained?
If approval was obtained, it's possible that the Association could be on the hook to pay for some of the fence it now want's changed (as they approved the owner to have it)

Quote:

Posted By DaveC6 on 07/11/2012 5:34 AM

One of our main intersections has three of the four corner lots with 6 ft privacy fences. I am concerned that someone driving into our community might be put off by the 6 ft fencing and it could have a negative impact on property values.

Do the governing documents prohibit privacy fences or just stockade fences?

Some county codes or city ordinance may have height limitations on fences near interchanges (as a safety issue). You may want to check there.

Quote:

Posted By DaveC6 on 07/11/2012 5:34 AM

We have rules in place regarding stockade style fencing not being allowed.

we are the only HOA within a reasonable distance that has chosen to allow this type of fence and in this quantity.

These two statements appear to contradict each other. Can you expand on what you are trying to say?

Quote:

Posted By DaveC6 on 07/11/2012 5:34 AM

I am no longer on the board but the president has agreed along with most board members to listen to revisions to our rules regarding fencing.

New rules will only affect those who want to put up new fences. Typically, fences previously approved and installed will be unaffected by the new rules. I'd suggest including language similar to the following in the new rules:

Fences that have written approval are considered grandfathered providing the fence is kept in proper repair and appearance and when replaced, the replacement must adhere to the current guidelines adopted and in force by the Association at the time of replacement.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Tim

You suggested:

Fences that have written approval are considered grandfathered providing the fence is kept in proper repair and appearance and when replaced, the replacement must adhere to the current guidelines adopted and in force by the Association at the time of replacement.

I would also try to add something that says upon sale of the property the existing fence must be brought into compliance within 90 days.

Still playing with fonts...see if this works......LOL

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

John,

I personally don't like those type of provisions in grandfather clauses as I think it doesn't adhere to the sprite of the clause.

If I received approval and installed a fence, deck or (whatever) and circumstances require me to sell a year or two later, I would consider legal action to see if I could collect the cost to replace that item because the rules changed as the Association, by approving the fence and then changing the rules, lowered my property value as compared to my neighbors by requiring me to change the item again.

Granted this argument loses credibility based on the remaining life of the item in question but I do think it can be a valid argument and possible legal issue for an Association.

By not including your provision, the Association prevents potential legal issues and still achieves the same result (it will just take a little longer).

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Is responsibility/authority for enforcement solely on the HOA Board? I'll have to dig for it, but I'm quite certain our documents say something in the sense that if the board fails to uphold any of the rules that any of the owners can have them enforced independent of the board.

NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119

Posted:

John - Our Covenants state no fences are not allowed in our community. I have read there is no such thing as grandfathering unless in Covenants. There is a lot of information in the Library regarding this. How about starting another forum about grandfathering.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Dave

Are you sure there is a restriction on type fences and/or a fence height restriction?

Did any fence owner get permission from the original declarant or the later BOD to erect such fences?

If there are restriction/rules that were ignored, then yes one would have recourse.

I think the property value arguement is rather esoteric as some love fences, some hate them. It could go either way on that. Some would not buy where fences are allowed, some would only buy where fences are allowed.

I would confine my investigation/suggestions/action to actual written restrictions/rules, and in that order.

Hope this helps.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

I would think that if permission was not granted and these fences are definitely contrary to the covenants, you could send a compliance letter asking for the fence to be brought into compliance within X amount of days, but I am sure that might not be received well.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/11/2012 9:06 AM
I think the property value arguement is rather esoteric as some love fences, some hate them. It could go either way on that. Some would not buy where fences are allowed, some would only buy where fences are allowed.

In much of the southwest, 6-foot privacy fences/walls around backyards are normal. This may be a holdover from territorial days as even the oldest neighborhoods have very private backyards. Concrete block fence may be the most common, but wood fences are widely used. Some owners use chain link, but this is probably the least aesthetic and least desireable of all fences and seem to go hand-in-hand with blighted properties. In older neighborhoods it is not uncommon for the fence to be a hedge of oleanders, sometimes fifteen feet or higher.

A house without a fence, much less an entire neighborhood without fences, is a rarity. I think that in the local market, a home without a privacy fence would be a difficult sell. No walls would bring a lower property values.

The fences in the southwest may originate in the Spanish roots. Spanish settlers used to build their homes inside a walled compound. I have seen a similar practice in rural France. Today in the southwest, a fully walled compound is rare (but some do exist) but the walled backyard is nearly universal in this region.

BTW, I grew up in Ohio where privacy fences were almost unheard of. After living with privacy walls in AZ, I would not want to go back.

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