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RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
I have another post about a pool issue and one of the replies got me thinking about violation processes.

Our HOA documents do not have a detailed violation reporting and process spelled out in them.

So I was wondering if other HOAs provide violates with the names of the parties who reported the issues, do all the homeowners know if they come forward with issues their names will be used, if not how do defend the HOA from being seen as a zealous group meddling in people lives and property?

As an HOA board member I am pretty tolerant of stuff BUT get upset when members blame the HOA for stuff when in fact people are simply not following the rules they agreed to.

Thanks for the replies

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The right of due process gives an alleged violator the right to face their accuser. The question becomes, is the initial complainer the accuser or does the Association (after an investigation) become the accuser? That question, you will have to answer yourself as an argument could be made either way.

Our policy is:

Written Complaint received
Investigation done by Architectural Committee
Written response to complainant.

If violation exists:

1) Informal notice (written or verbal) - x days to comply (typically 30 but could be less depending on violation).
2) Formal Notice (written sent via 1st class mail) - x days to comply
3) Notice of Hearing (written - via certified mail) before the committee - 30 day notice.
4) Hearing held - right to face accuser, submit mitigating circumstances, etc.
5) Result of hearing - sent within 7 days via certified mail

APPEAL
1) Request for appeal/review of Committee Decision sent to board
2) Board investigates to see if violation exists
3) Notice of Hearing before the Board (written - via certified mail) - 30 day notice.
4) Hearing held - right to face accuser, submit mitigating circumstances, etc.
5) Result of Hearing - sent within 7 days via certified mail

Options Available:

1) Impose fine
2) Suspend voting rights
3) Suspension of amenities (not practical for us, as we have limited amenities)
4) Enter property to repair and charge homeowner as assessment

Typically the issue is resolved when the committee holds a hearing. We have never had the issue not be resolved once it came to a hearing before the board. (Usually they find out we are serious and correct the issue prior to the BOD hearing).

RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
That is where I was coming from. I think anyone should be able to face the accuser so the question becomes who is that person - the HOA or the someone that told the HOA of a potential issue.

Thanks for the input
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The argument points, as I understand them, are:

1) The initial complainer is the accuser because they started the process.

2) The Association is the accuser because, similar to contacting the police, the member contacted the Association to investigate. If a violation exists, the Association (similar to the police) are the one's pressing the issue.

3) Both are witnesses to the action and both become the accuser.

RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
That is a great comparison.
Thanks
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
To me, it boiled down to a "did I (board member), during the course of my investigation (based on a complaint) see the violation/condition?" If so, then I am the accuser.

If i get a complaint that I cannot personally verify (condition doesn't exist by the time I get there, etc.), then I will typically let the complainant know that there is little I can do without either evidence or giving out their name, and I might possibly have a friendly chat with the accused without names, if i think a chat might calm the issue. That all depends on the person(s) involved, and their history of receptiveness.

Ex: Hey Tom, must have been a wild party the other night. I personally didn't hear the fireworks at 2 am, because I was out of town, but a couple other homeowners let me know about them. Think that maybe next time you have a party, you could tone down the loudness after 11 or so? Your neighbors would appreciate it, I am sure, and you wouldn't be violating the covenants and all.

(if it turns ugly)
Well, that is your opinion about them, but regardless, it seems there were fireworks, and that is a violation, so... be careful with your noise, because your opinion of them won't help you if you get a violation notice.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
While often specific only to CA legislation, go to davis-serling.com -> Main Index -> Rules for idea about how to set up a schedule of fine. But do note that notice requirements may be different in PA.

You'll also see that if a rep of the HOA (board member, mgr., security officer) corroborates the violation in writing, the original accuser, say a neighbor, is not required to face the accused.

We don't send the initial "courtesy" letter nor a follow-up call to hearing if the violation allegedly is not cured unless the alleged violation is confirmed. If three neighbors want to complain against a fourth, say for after hours noise nuisance, they may be able to submit phone pics or even record the noise is such a way that the recording is dated with a time on it.

In our urban high rise HOA, there always are security officers on duty so we always have a source of corroboration.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Personally, I like having the complainer as the accuser because it keeps petty things from getting out of control.
Many are willing to complain and point fingers if they are insulated from being seen.
Letting the individual know that they may be called upon as a witness can limit the petty stuff.
Granted, it might prevent the bigger stuff from being reported but the annual inspection typically catches those anyway.

If we think the issue is more of neighbor vs. neighbor, our documents specify the following:

"Other than alleged covenant violations or alleged violations of the Design Guidelines, disputes between owners regarding activities within the private lots or living units or the appurtenant common areas, the Association will generally not become involved in the disputes or act on a complaint unless two or more persons have complained in writing."

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Oh, I agree with you, Tim. I was thinking more along the lines of, say, someone leaving this trash cans on the curb for days on end, which I assume is against the rules in many HOAs. A board member could corroborate this, and the complaining neighbors wouldn't need to face the accused (at least in CA).

I don't think that boards should get involved with neighbor/neighbor quarrels unless the activity clearly violates the HOA's rules.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tim

I copied what you wrote for future reference. Thanks.

I some have concern about a violation reporter having to face whom they accuse. Personally I would try and prevent this if at all possible.

Once a complaint is received and investigated the appropriate committee should respond in several ways:

1. First, notify the violation reporter that the issue will be looked at.

2. Treat the report with benign neglect....LOL

2A. If no evidence is found, notify the reporter that no evidence was found and or there is no violation and unless more information is received, no additional action will be taken.

2B. If the violation is verified then the appropiate committee should take action and as such, they then become the formal complainer.

Personally I like the idea of a specific committee looking into allegations verus the BOD. Reason being that if one disagrees with the committee, then they can appeal to the BOD. This makes one feel they are not being railroaded by one group.

RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Very interesting replies - Thanks

The balance I was seeking ideas on seems to be what others are also doing - we want to encourage people to let is know about stuff BUT do not want to be a referee in personal disputes or do we want the community as a whole to think the HOA is on patrol.

Our current issue to me is pretty easy BUT the violator now wants to not comply till all the "new" issues they have found since being caught are addressed. Tit for tat.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Due process is important.

A dispute between HOA members is like a dispute between neighbors in court. So a HOA hearing should function like a court.Trying to avoid being in the middle of personal dispute may be difficult.

We were threatened several times with fines by our HOA, but when we asked who made those complaints, they were silent. If someone is unwilling to go on record, then that's unfortunate but everyone needs to be willing to speak for his/herself.

If the HOA becomes too involved then there can be a conflict of interests. In that case a director should recuse his/herself.

The violator also has the right to be a complainant. But like the court a board should take complaints in the order they come.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don't think ours have a detailed process either (yet another reason, we're moving towards restarting our CCR revision process!) Here's our general approach and since I've been here, it seems to work most of the time.

First, we don't take anonymous complaints, nor do we get involved in disputes between residents unless there's been damage to the common area. This is published in our newsletter regularly and we've explained to homeowners that we cannot investigate without detailed information, and if it gets escalated to the point legal action is necessary, both the complainant and accused homeowner will be expected to tell their side of the story to a court.

If people are afraid of retaliation of some sort, they can refer complaints to our security officer - he'll make a note of who made the complaint, but won't tell the subject of the complaint. It's more of a "I received a complaint about X" - our officer is an off duty cop and is very good at getting detailed information, so the offending homeowner will be able to respond.

People can also complain to our property manager or send an email to the board. There are seven of us and all but one has an email specifically designated for Association business. If it's a complaint, the property manager will forward it to the offending homeowner (or alleged offending homeowner, if you prefer) and request a response before the next board meeting. In the meantime, we notify the homeowner that a copy of the complaint has been sent to the other homeowner. If we don't hear anything else, that's the end of it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/12/2012 7:48 AM
I don't think ours have a detailed process either (yet another reason, we're moving towards restarting our CCR revision process!) Here's our general approach and since I've been here, it seems to work most of the time.

First, we don't take anonymous complaints, nor do we get involved in disputes between residents unless there's been damage to the common area. This is published in our newsletter regularly and we've explained to homeowners that we cannot investigate without detailed information, and if it gets escalated to the point legal action is necessary, both the complainant and accused homeowner will be expected to tell their side of the story to a court.

If people are afraid of retaliation of some sort, they can refer complaints to our security officer - he'll make a note of who made the complaint, but won't tell the subject of the complaint. It's more of a "I received a complaint about X" - our officer is an off duty cop and is very good at getting detailed information, so the offending homeowner will be able to respond.

People can also complain to our property manager or send an email to the board. There are seven of us and all but one has an email specifically designated for Association business. If it's a complaint, the property manager will forward it to the offending homeowner (or alleged offending homeowner, if you prefer) and request a response before the next board meeting. In the meantime, we notify the homeowner that a copy of the complaint has been sent to the other homeowner. If we don't hear anything else, that's the end of it.

Thanks for the input - I guess I should have done a better job explaining our development.
1. We are a single family home development of 90 homes today on 1/3 acre lots with around 20 more planned when the builder gets the sewer permits and the market lets them build

2. We have no facilities just common grass/meadow areas and a retention water basin

3. Dues are $90 a year

4. We are self ran - BOD and ARC are elected homeowners - there is no property management co etc
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Randy,

Be prepared for a heavy increase in assessments when the builder quits subsidizing the expenses. If you don't own the roads, sidewalks, street signs, street lights, trails, etc. then your only issue may be the retention basin. You might want to read up on local statutes about what maintenance or requirements have to be met for that.

If you don't have a reserve fund yet, have a study done and start one.

RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2012 8:10 AM
Randy,

Be prepared for a heavy increase in assessments when the builder quits subsidizing the expenses. If you don't own the roads, sidewalks, street signs, street lights, trails, etc. then your only issue may be the retention basin. You might want to read up on local statutes about what maintenance or requirements have to be met for that.

If you don't have a reserve fund yet, have a study done and start one.


The only money we get (I know about) from the developer is $90 per lot they still own.

Sidewalks are unit owners to maintain

So far the township has done three streets (4 when they build the horseshoe for the last 20)

I see on the CCR we have the common area, basin and storm water management system

The Association shall have the duty, obligation, and the sole and exclusive power and right:
4.4.1 To operate, maintain, repair, restore, manage, administer and improve the Open Space, pursuant to the Article 7 herein, including inter alia, all roads, stormwater management systems and their associated basins and other improvements located thereon;

There is a reserve fund

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB6 on 07/12/2012 8:24 AM

Sidewalks are unit owners to maintain

I expect that the sidewalks that border common area are maintained by the Association.

Be glad the city is taking over the roads. Per the language you provided they would have been the responsibility of the Association had that not happened.
RandyB6 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2012 8:47 AM
Posted By RandyB6 on 07/12/2012 8:24 AM

Sidewalks are unit owners to maintain


I expect that the sidewalks that border common area are maintained by the Association.

Be glad the city is taking over the roads. Per the language you provided they would have been the responsibility of the Association had that not happened.

No sidewalks on/in common area

I agree which makes me wonder...
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:

The HOA is the "Accuser" because it carries the authority to accuse dues payers of violations and is the arbiter and interpreter of HOA rules and by-laws. The person claiming a violation has the privilege of reporting a violation but cannot execute on the violation.

People do wonder who ratted on them but for obvious violations where a person's behavior can be compared to the HOA rules, then it's the defendant against the rule book he/she signed to follow when they purchased their home in an HOA-protected property.

To the HOA, it needs to know the accuser's name to prevent neighborly feuds from wasting its time. Using HOA reports to harass a neighbor is unacceptable in any case.

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