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JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Here in PA our new development has groundhogs living in burrows and tunnels in the Common Areas. For the last year or so, the homeowners thought the groundhogs were cute until 2 weeks ago when some homeowners discovered damage to their property from the latest generation moving out and looking to make new homes on their property.

As new president of our HOA, I said that I thought that controlling (trapping) groundhogs living in Common Areas was part of our maintenance reponsibility. The rest of the Board says if the homeowners have a problem with the groundhogs then the homeowners should pay to have them trapped.

I'd like to get some opinions on whether the HOA should pay for the trapping.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
very intriguing question.

If the beasts are a recognized pest, then I believe those responsible for the common area should remove them from the common area. If the HOA was harboring cockroaches, for example, they should do something about it. Or allowed Russian Thistle to grow and seed. Or had a pile of wood with termites present.

If the beasts are just a nuisance, then I think the homeowners should simply take care of their own problems. For instance, if the common area had trees with locusts, and I hated locusts, I don't think the HOA should poison the trees, just because of that. Locusts are not vermin, legally recognized as pests, etc..

So, are groundhogs legally considered pests in PA? Are they regulated like a noxious pest or weed? Then the HOA has a responsibility to control them, and not allow them to breed and spread. Are they just nuisances? Would the HOA consider trapping or poisoning squirrels, for example, or blackbirds that lived in common area trees? Is there a common sense standard that isn't being followed (for instance, in Arizona, it is common sense (and perhaps statute in some cities) to clean up all dropped citrus fruit, to lower the food supply and prevent roof rat infestations). Is there some general rule of common sense about groundhogs in PA that isn't being followed?

In general, I lean towards "the homeowner is responsible for policing their yard, it's their responsibility", and not pushing the burden onto the HOA common element. After all, what's next? Crickets coming over from the rocks? Spiders? Mice?

But, I could be swayed by a good argument.
NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
Joseph - The Board is responsible for the common areas as part of your landscape maintenance. The Board should pay for the trapping on the common areas only. Instead of traps there are other methods of getting rid of them. One way is some type of worm that is put in the ground so many feet apart. Check with your landscaper, he probably knows. Maybe if the moles are controlled on the common areas they will not travel onto the homeowners property. Let the homeowner take care of their property.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
As it is unlikely that your CC&Rs address groundhogs this is a matter for the board to vote on. Ideally the board should seek community input first.

I think they could probably go either way. If the problem is across the association there may well be economies of scale. If it only affects specific properties it may be best left to individual homeowners.
WillK1 (New Jersey)
Posts: 43
Posted:
At a certain point, this could be seen as a way to spend on an ounce of prevention before the problem becomes a lot bigger. And more expensive to deal with.

For example, if the cost is relatively small and a decent # of homeowners could be effected in the future, then it seems worth doing.

Another point is that this doesn't seem like a problem to be dealt with effectively on a individual basis. The problem just goes over to the next property. Like in an apartment building, you can't really exterminate for roaches in one unit - you spray the whole building at once.

I think if the cost of trapping is less than the cost of damage to one house, then it should be done.

If it seems like this will need to be dealt with eventually, then it makes sense to deal with it sooner.

(Obviously I avoided the topic of whether groundhogs are an HOA responsibility. I have no idea. Or what sorts of numbers are involved.)

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I think that if the offending groundhogs are on the homeowners' property, they should be responsible. If the offending groundhogs are located on common property, it should be determined by the board whether or not the groundhogs are a high-priorty issue and should deal with it accordingly through a vote - maybe a vote by the membership if necessary.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Joseph,

If the common area is being negatively affected by groundhogs and could present a slight diminishing of appeal or property value, I'd stand with you to correct the problem if it's financially feasible, regardless of means.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Yes, groundhogs are cute, but like rabbits they are very destructive.

Groundhogs need to be controlled. The natural way is probably not available to you (snakes, coyotes, foxes, bobcats and hawks) and I don't see that you'll win many hearts by introducing snakes or foxes to the grounds.

What you might have to do is agree upon the manner in which the animals are controlled and see what your city/state allows. You'd want to be careful that the dogs and cats owned by residents aren't also poisoned or trapped.

Groundhogs can also bring diseases such as Lyme, spotted mountain and typhus.

Yes, get rid of them. They are a responsibility of the HOA, but they don't see common area boundaries so a discussion about an agreeable/legal way to control should be in order ASAP and possibly be extended to help those with the problem in their private areas as well (as in possible discount from the exterminator service to include non-common areas).

NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
Don't set a precedence. Your job is to take care of the common areas. Contact a licensed pest control company, they will know what the laws are and what to do and how to mark the areas to keep pets out. Dogs should be on a lease and not running wild. Unfortunately nothing can be done about cats or wild animals, the pest control company will know what to do. Like I suggested before there is a worm that can be planted in the ground which would not involve animals. As the pest control company about them.
EdmundS1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 45
Posted:
The HOA should have taken care of this from Day 1. When the first resident/guest/child puts his/her foot in a groundhog hole in the common area and ends up in a cast, the HOA will be responsible for medical costs plus whatever other costs the court may impose.

The fact that it has gone on for over a year confirms the HOA's failure to maintain a "safe" environment. You also need to get rid of the groundhogs on individual lots since they would not be there if the HOA had taken care of the problem earlier.

Farmers/ranchers hire people who "hunt" groundhogs on their property since they lose cattle to broken legs from groundhog holes. Also, when a groundhog hole (den) is empty new residents move in (skunks, snakes, rats).
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
How is the presence of groundhogs in common areas reflective of HOA negligence, subject to a legitimate lawsuit from someone who stepped in a groundhog hole? People can sue for anything so I use the "legitimate" descriptor.

Using that logic, the HOA is responsible if someone gets bitten by a snake as the HOA should have known the snake was on its property, poised to strike.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Best way to get rid of ground hogs:

WOODCHUCK (GROUNDHOG) STEW

1 woodchuck
2 onions, sliced
1/2 cup celery, sliced
Flour
Vinegar and water
Salt and pepper
Cloves

Clean woodchuck; remove glands; cut into serving pieces. Soak overnight in a solution of equal parts of water and vinegar with addition of one sliced onion and a little salt. Drain, wash, and wipe. Parboil 20 minutes, drain, and cover with fresh boiling water. Add one sliced onion, celery, a few cloves, and salt and pepper to taste. Cook until tender; thicken gravy with flour.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
yum yum yum ..... i'm actually drooling ....
BrianB10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 24
Posted:
Unfortunately when it comes to an HOA's liability for accidents that occur on common element, logic does not always apply.

Point in case:

-Homeowner's mother visiting from out of town walked outside in the dark and tripped on a paver around homeowner's unit, that was installed by homeowner, resulting in a broken wrist and other associated costs.

-Homeowner's mother sued hoa, because the paver was on the common element.

-HOA claimed that since the paver was installed on common element without permission and was installed improperly it was not their responsibility.

-HOA's insurance carrier settled claim after determining that regardless of who installed the paver it was on the common element and therefore their responsibility.

-That $40K settlement showed up in a huge increase in the hoa's insurance premium.

So, if it was me I would rectify your groundhog situation quick... This does not even mention the potential damage to common element from these little critters.
EdmundS1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 45
Posted:
The key here is, "prior knowledge". The HOA knows about the groundhogs (for over a year) and did nothing. If a snake was there and the HOA did not know about it then that would be a different situation. As the post regarding the paver in the common area demostrates, when you are responsible for common areas the blame falls on you more often then not.

Tha HOA that I'm on has 2-3 board members, we rotate the work, who inspect the common areas 3 times a year looking for the types of potential problems the groundhog and paver posts illustrate. We also have a community pool and community garden that are inspected more frequently (during the season) for potential problems.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
the more i read this post and the responses, the more I am struck by how diverse HOA's can truly be... And how different our individual paradigms are.

I imagine every poster here has a different picture in their mind of what this "common area" looks like, and how close the next property is, and how the ground hog holes look, based on their experiences. And yet, we really don't know, when we answer, how close to reality that vision is.

I would love to take a show of hands: How many think this common area is lot sized, green, with big mounds of dirt from the little varmints digging it up? How many think it's an acre or so park, with green grass? with dirt and rock? with cactus or creosote shrubs?

How many groundhogs are there in your picture? 1, 2, 10, 100?

The HOA where I live now, my answer would be "deal with the critters on your property, if it bothers you", you can use my shotgun if you want... But, our properties are 2 to 5 acres of desert scrub, and it wouldn't matter if the 5 acres of common area had Zero groundhogs, they could still be on your property, or your neighbors. Heck, it would be hard to say whether you gave the HOA cooties, or the HOA gave you cooties, or you and your neighbors gave them to each other.... Also, in my HOA, there's no practical way to exterminate them anyway, so, what can you do?

However, in a city HOA, the situation would be totally different. I could see the options to exterminate being more successful. I could see the damage potential being greater. I could see it being easier to determine the loci of origination.

It's just interesting to me that the advice we offer can be so different, because our paradigms are so different, and we too often fail to see that in our answers.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am having visions of "Caddy shack" here...

Former HOA President
BrianB10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 24
Posted:
The associations I use to manage for were all fairly high density. The one I mentioned in my example was 137 units set on approximately 10ac. So, the common element was comprised of tight green spaces and some patches of trees.
JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57
Posted:
First of all, thanks for all the comments.

Our development is about 28 acres with 45 townhomes and 30 semi attached homes with about 12 acres of open space.

Most of the open space is "open" with a couple of small clumps of trees & brush around the edges. But right next to us is a park with woods (and groundhogs). It seems that, over time, some of the groundhogs migrate out of the woods and set up living in our development.

Well, last week 10 homeowners (including me) got together and hired a company to trap the groundhogs. They put kill traps over the holes in our common area and some cage traps on homeowners property. In one week they caught 15 groundhogs, 2 skunks, and 3 rabbits. Total cost was $875.

I'm still trying to persuade the other Board members that the HOA should take responsibility for the grounhogs if they are living and breeding on HOA common areas. The migration from the park will probably continue and sometime in the future we will have a problem again. I'm trying to figure out a way to get them to migrate to an area behind the other Board members houses and see what they think then.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
This topic deserves a bump today of all days.
CliffordL (New Jersey)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Another important consideration is that when/if a groundhog leaves its borrow, new opportunistic wildlife takes advantage of this. Skunks and other cave/borrow-stealing animals will make their home in these abandoned and extensive tunnels, thereby compounding your problems.

*Post Bump
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
The HOA should control groundhogs in common areas if they are a nuisance but would not be responsible to "Letting" groundhogs affect private lots. Many residents, in the name of wildlife preservation, will oppose trapping or wildlife control measures but the HOA faces property management demands, including preventing destruction.

In our state, an equivalent issue involves beavers and muskrats.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our HOA does pay to trap groundhogs around our retention pond to prevent damage, especially to an earthen dam. We would not pay to trap them in other places.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
10 year old post.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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