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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
A few months ago, I came across an item on a Georgia HOA attorney (or management company, I forget which) that suggested an interesting tactic to use on our never ending quest to compel delinquent homeonwers to pay. The site suggested that HOA boards inform the homeowner that if he/she/they do not make payment arrangements, the Association will file a 1099-C with the IRS.

Apparently, what this does is notify the IRS that a creditor is no longer pursing payment on an unsecured debt, listing the amount owed. Since this would be considered income, the homeowner could be subject to paying higher income taxes - and facing THAT proposition, might be more persuaded to come up with a payment plan with the association. I've heard unsecured creditors like credit card companies often do this - but it can't be done if the person declares bankruptcy because discharged debts aren't looked as income by the IRS.

I asked our Associaiton attorney about this - she hadn't heard of this and since it's a tax issue, it would be best to talk to a tax attorney. We may do this down the road (right now, we don't the money for that), but it would be great if we had to foreclose on a homeowner and take a bath when writing off the debt, notifying the IRS of the deadbeat would result in him or her trying to explain all of this (go ahead and try to cheat the IRS out of their money!)

You've probably guessed why I'm posting - anyone heard of this or tried it with their association? If so, has it helped recover some money? Thanks in advance for your opinions and suggestions!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
This of course would require that the Association has forgiven the debt (which typically isn't done).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Shoot. Hit the post too soon.

Wanted to add that it is an interesting avenue to explore (especially if the Association is to the point of realizing that they aren't going to collect anything).

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
You can try to threaten to file the 1099-C, and see if that shakes loose anything. You don't actually have to file it.

If you DO file it, remember that you have claimed to the IRS that you are no longer working to collect the debt owed, you have written it off (and thus, is income to the person). SO, if you DO file a 1099-C, you can't later go back and ask the HO to pay the owed amount. (I think. IANATL)

Honestly, if I owed my HOA say $1000 in back dues, and they threatened to forgive the debt and tell the IRS, so I would have to add that $1000 to my income for the year, I would say "thank you. can I give you a stamp for that IRS envelope?"

That's pennies on the dollar for me. A good deal, AND, it gets the HOA off my case for a year or two.
MattG2 (Kansas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Sheila that's correct.

But, in general from a financial perspective this would work out in the homewoner's favor, as at most it would be what 36% of the past due amount?

Also once this is done you cannot take any further action related to the amount forgiven, as per the 1099-C the HOA has waived their interest in the debt.

At a minimum this would cause the delinquent HO to pay something....

Doesn't sound like a bad last resort when all other options are expended.
BamaJ (Alabama)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Not a tax expert but as a career banker/lender, I would suspect a lien position against the property gives some assurance of repayment at some time in the future (assuming HOA doesn't foreclose), as opposed to giving up on ever obtaining repayment of the debt forever.

Make sure lien is recorded.

But if the HOAs began checking public records themselves, they will often find these homeowners with seriously deliquent dues already have a long trail of financial woes, including other judgements, liens, tax liens, and other adverse financial legal actions, so it will put the HOA dues deliquencies in a proper perspective...the homeowner likely has much bigger financial problems than deliquent dues.

Of course, if they are forced into bankruptcy, all bets are off anyway. Then the 1099-C might be in order AND will perhaps give the HOA a tax write off on their own taxes. The HOA CPA can guide the board on that subject.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/03/2012 9:04 AM
A few months ago, I came across an item on a Georgia HOA attorney (or management company, I forget which)...


I think the article that you are referring to is Take Action Against Delinquent Homeowners on the website of Riverside Property Management. As Brian pointed out, the strategy is not to file the 1099-C to get some benefit, but to threaten to file it and see if that spurs action.

Our delinquent homeowners have learned how much it costs the Association to pursue a collection lawsuit, and they have been thumbing their nose at us while they dare us to spend the money it would take to force them to pay. Filing a 1099-C costs nothing, so this might be a strategy that works.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
I still prefer 3 am phone calls, calls to their bosses, and all the things that are illegal if you sell the debt to a third party.

Just keep the debt to the HOA, and you can do most anything, since the Fair Debt Collection act doesn't apply.

(fyi, read the above with heavy tongue in cheek...)

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Brian,

In times past, when most homeowners were sitting on large equity positions on their property, the threat of a foreclosure was a powerful incentive to pay assessments. Nowadays an Association has to resort to more creative means of collection, since many homeowners are under water on their homes and largely "judgment proof". We have yet to start calling the place of work of delinquents or harassing them at odd hours, but we are looking for most any idea that will help.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 07/03/2012 2:06 PM
Brian,

In times past, when most homeowners were sitting on large equity positions on their property, the threat of a foreclosure was a powerful incentive to pay assessments. Nowadays an Association has to resort to more creative means of collection, since many homeowners are under water on their homes and largely "judgment proof". We have yet to start calling the place of work of delinquents or harassing them at odd hours, but we are looking for most any idea that will help.

Personally, I'm beginning to think debtor's prison (from the Middle Ages) is a concept that should make a comeback. I'd consider a well placed smack on the hands (like I saw when watching Casino again last weekend), but alas, that'll get us arrested!

Thanks for the comments everyone - right now this is an option I've brought to our board and if it was something that could work for us, I can see us filing it after we've written the thing off.

Some might say why kick the folks when they're already down, but part of my mindset these days is if the Associaiton can''t get its money and those of us who are paying on time have to sretch our dollars even more to cover those who don't or refuse to, I want to do whatever we can to make sure THEY don't get credit to buy bubblegum out of a vending machine. This doesn't include the folks who really have tried their best to pay, but their finances are such that homeownership isn't an option for them anymore. It's best for both of us to cut ties and move on.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Just to toss a burning torch on the pitch wagon....

Anecdotal musings:

Without fail, every single person I know in my two HOA histories that "couldn't afford to pay" their dues, assessments, etc., had cell phones. They had Cable TV. In each HOA, the monthly cost of either item was double, or triple what our dues were. They couldn't afford $20/month for HOA dues, but had Cinemax and HBO on cable. Couldn't afford $110/year, but had cell phones for themselves, spouses, and kids. Had a fridge full of beer, at least one more car than drivers in the home, etc..

People choose not to pay their HOA dues, rarely do circumstances drive them to being unable to pay. I feel no sympathy for them because of that (lazy) choice.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 07/03/2012 2:48 PM

Without fail, every single person I know in my two HOA histories that "couldn't afford to pay" their dues, assessments, etc., had cell phones. They had Cable TV. In each HOA, the monthly cost of either item was double, or triple what our dues were. They couldn't afford $20/month for HOA dues, but had Cinemax and HBO on cable. Couldn't afford $110/year, but had cell phones for themselves, spouses, and kids. Had a fridge full of beer, at least one more car than drivers in the home, etc..

People choose not to pay their HOA dues, rarely do circumstances drive them to being unable to pay. I feel no sympathy for them because of that (lazy) choice.

I suspect that those who are delinquent on the assessments may be struggling to keep up payments on all those other things as well. The reason that the HOA does not get paid is because the cell phone and cable companies are more aggressive in collecting their bills. Plus, unlike the HOA, the cell phones and cable stops working when you don't pay.

This is nothing new. In my younger days I noted that all my friends who could not pay their rent always had a killer stereo and all the latest albums.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I learned not to judge people for what they have. Most people ONLY have cellphones now adays and not home phones. If you have kids cable is a great babysitter...You may see someone have "new" furniture coming into their house. How do you know that was NOT an inheretance?

Don't judge what people spend their money on. It is NOT yours to judge or manage. The HOA just needs to take action when it is approriate and allowed to do so.

Former HOA President
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 07/03/2012 2:48 PM
Just to toss a burning torch on the pitch wagon....

Anecdotal musings:

Without fail, every single person I know in my two HOA histories that "couldn't afford to pay" their dues, assessments, etc., had cell phones. They had Cable TV. In each HOA, the monthly cost of either item was double, or triple what our dues were. They couldn't afford $20/month for HOA dues, but had Cinemax and HBO on cable. Couldn't afford $110/year, but had cell phones for themselves, spouses, and kids. Had a fridge full of beer, at least one more car than drivers in the home, etc..

People choose not to pay their HOA dues, rarely do circumstances drive them to being unable to pay. I feel no sympathy for them because of that (lazy) choice.


AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/03/2012 7:46 PM
I learned not to judge people for what they have. Most people ONLY have cellphones now adays and not home phones. If you have kids cable is a great babysitter...You may see someone have "new" furniture coming into their house. How do you know that was NOT an inheretance?

Don't judge what people spend their money on. It is NOT yours to judge or manage. The HOA just needs to take action when it is approriate and allowed to do so.

I learn to judge people by what they say and do. If they say they will pay X on time, and live by Y rules, and they do, I judge them as good people. If they promise to do X,Y and Z, and they don't, I judge them to be unreliable, untrustworthy people. I judge people who continually complain to me that they have "no money" when I see them with cell phones, HBO, beer in the fridge, etc.. Because if they WANTED to have money to pay their other bills, they could. They just have to give up some extras. But, in all my time of being a sounding board for these folks, they all, without fail, balk at making these real cuts in their lifestyle. they would rather whine about not having any money, while waiting in line at Starbucks, chatting on their cell phones, about the movie they DVR'ed last week while they were out at the clubs and bars getting drunk.

I honestly don't care if they own a phone, mercedes, or can barely scrape together 50 cents for a cup of coffee. Do they follow through on their commitments? Do they do what they promise to do?

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 07/03/2012 9:11 AM
You can try to threaten to file the 1099-C, and see if that shakes loose anything. You don't actually have to file it.

I would think that threatening action by not going through with it would be a violation of the FDCPA.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/04/2012 1:09 PM
I would think that threatening action by not going through with it would be a violation of the FDCPA.


The homeowners association itself, acting through its board of directors, is not subject to the provisions of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA). I think that is one of the points that Brian was making.

The FDCPA applies only to third parties hired by a creditor to collect a debt. Since the HOA is the original creditor, the act does not apply.

Please see Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act for a detail discussion of this.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/04/2012 1:09 PM

I would think that threatening action by not going through with it would be a violation of the FDCPA.

I think that you shouldn't threaten any action unless you intend to go through with it as it can damage your credibility.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Tim - You're right, but I think in some cases where you're going to write off the debt and you know that it's not worth spending the money on filing a judgement in order to pursue the debtor. You weigh the expense of going after the debtor versus the amount of the debt.

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