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JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57
Posted:
I don’t understand the discussions in the forum regarding “transition” of Common Elements.

I am a new (2012) president of an HOA in PA. The HOA consists of 35 semi-attached houses and 40 townhouses.

The documents I inherited show that our HOA was formed by the Developer in 2006 and the Common Elements (mostly open areas with storm water drainage facilities) were deeded to our HOA in 2006. At this time the HOA was under Developer Control.

In 2011, when the required percent of units were sold, the Developer Board quit and a Homeowner Board was elected. So I guess this election was the “transition”.

I have read a lot of advice on this forum about the transition processes including audits and inspections and how the Homeowner HOA can negotiate with the Developer. But I don’t see how the Developer has to do anything other than quit the Board to complete the transition.

Did we miss our opportunity to hold up the transition until we could do audits and inspections?

Joe H

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JosephH2 on 07/03/2012 8:39 AM
I don’t understand the discussions in the forum regarding “transition” of Common Elements.

I am a new (2012) president of an HOA in PA. The HOA consists of 35 semi-attached houses and 40 townhouses.

The documents I inherited show that our HOA was formed by the Developer in 2006 and the Common Elements (mostly open areas with storm water drainage facilities) were deeded to our HOA in 2006. At this time the HOA was under Developer Control.

In 2011, when the required percent of units were sold, the Developer Board quit and a Homeowner Board was elected. So I guess this election was the “transition”.

I have read a lot of advice on this forum about the transition processes including audits and inspections and how the Homeowner HOA can negotiate with the Developer. But I don’t see how the Developer has to do anything other than quit the Board to complete the transition.

Did we miss our opportunity to hold up the transition until we could do audits and inspections?

Joe H


Six years after taking control it is probably too late for anything except unfulled common area commitments which are in writing and are significant enough to discuss with an HOA attorney.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
most likely, the big open window of transition is closed.

So yes, the opportunity to get the developer to do X, Y, and Z is mostly, if not all, gone. You may still have some leverage, others will be along that might give you some ideas of what you might still be able to do, but once the new board is elected, typically the developer washes his hands and moves on as soon as possible.

KaushalV (New Jersey)
Posts: 25
Posted:
I am in a similar position as Joseph, so I would like to see where this discussion goes.

As I read the OP, their HOA took control only in 2011. So, it's been an year since the homeowners controlled the board. As I understand, election-of-homeowners is only a step in transition. It is not the end/completion of transition. Many transition activities can only be performed after getting elected to the board. For example:

1. If homeowners want to retain a different attorney to guide them through the transition and review common property documents, they can only hire one after getting elected to the board.
2. If homeowners want to get an engineering audit done, they can hire a firm only after getting on the board.
3. If homeowners want to get a financial audit done, they can demand the developer to provide one. But, their demand would carry more weight if homeowner-elected-board makes it.

Time may have been wasted by Joseph's board, but there may still be opportunity. I would suggest the following:

1. Contact the Engineering department of your township and see if the developer has requested release of bonds. That will tell you how fast he wants to get out. Then, see if the engg. department has conducted an inspection as part of bond-release process. Get a copy of it and review it.
2. Create your own issues list for common elements and decide whether you can afford an engineering audit. (We are finding that engg audit cost ~$10,000 and it is too expensive for us).
3. Decide if you are happy with financial condition of the association. If not, consider a financial audit (we are finding it costs ~$5000).
4. Decide if you are comfortable with legal documents related to the property (like master deed, income tax submissions, etc.)
5. Communicate to the developer with your issues list, you intent for engg/financial audit, status of legal documents and tell him that the transition is not complete. Submit a copy of this letter to your township so that they are in the loop.
KaushalV (New Jersey)
Posts: 25
Posted:
I forgot to agree that yes, the developer would do the minimum. The new board has to do their due diligence, bring issues to the developer and negotiate with the developer to get things done.

Developer is really looking to release his bonds from the township. He may play nice up until that. After that, if he is not good, the only way to get things done would be to construct a case and threaten him with legal action.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Joseph, there's some good advice here & it seems that KaushalV has some nice insights.

In our HOA, the developer sweet-talked previous boards and said, oh sure, we'll take care of this or that suspected construction defect. A group of us finally got a majority on the board and asked in friendly written ways for action. More foot-dragging.

We ultimately had to take legal action as we (rightly) were concerned that the statute of limitations would run (time would run out). Here in CA, by hiring attorneys, who took a certain action, the statue of limitations clock was stopped. We reached a successful settlement two years later.

So, no matter how friendly & helpful the developer seems, your board must take responsibility for making sure the books, structures, etc., are OK.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Here is a transition from developer to homeowners link I have posted several times on this site.
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JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Thanks to everyone for all the comments so far and I’m already in the process of looking into KaushalV’s suggestions which I think will be helpful.

What bothers me is that most of the discussions about transition on this forum seem to imply that there is a point in the process where the homeowners have a position from which they can negotiate with the developer before “accepting” control of the HOA.

I just don’t see how that happens. The year before I was elected president, the Developer’s Board resigned as per our bylaws, an election was held and the homeowners were elected. (Also, the common areas were not completed at the time).

Should we have refused to hold the election?

Even if it’s too late, I would like to understand where we went wrong.

Joe H
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Joseph,

As I understand it, ideally the BOD prior to holding the election should have set up a committee to manage the transition. At the very least, the first Board elected by the membership should have had an audit done of the books, hired a new attorney (as there would always be a question as to whom the previous attorney worked for) and gone through the checklist provided by Roger.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JosephH2 on 07/03/2012 9:30 PM

What bothers me is that most of the discussions about transition on this forum seem to imply that there is a point in the process where the homeowners have a position from which they can negotiate with the developer before “accepting” control of the HOA.

I just don’t see how that happens. The year before I was elected president, the Developer’s Board resigned as per our bylaws, an election was held and the homeowners were elected. (Also, the common areas were not completed at the time).

Should we have refused to hold the election?

Even if it’s too late, I would like to understand where we went wrong.

Joe H

Joe:

I think your situation is far more common than having a developer who works with homeowners to do an orderly transition. There is nothing I am aware of that says the developer must negotiate with the homeowners when he hands control to them.

Until the homeowners had control of the board you had no control over anything that happened. Refusing to hold an election after the developer washed his hands of the association would have left you with a bus without a driver.

I do not understand why you think you went wrong.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Joe

One reason I expect our transition to be orderly is the declarant has always been very honest and up front. We (appointed BOD) are working with him to change a few covenants to make it easier for us to run the HOA. Meaning he can make them by himself now. We have a capital reserve and it is documented. We have discussed hiring a lwayer to represent us (not the present declarants lawyer) during the transition and tghe declarant says that is a wise idea.

Last but not least the declaraant will still have about 11 homes to sell and the last thing anyone wants are neighbors protesting one way or anther.

Trust but verify.........LOL

JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Thanks again to all for the comments.

After considering all the comments and doing some research, it seems to me that our current homeowners’ Board is in the following position:

1. We are OK with our financial situation.
2. There are a few documents missing which I am getting from the Declarant.
3. As to the physical condition, our declarant deeded over the land for our common areas back in 2006 when he controlled the Board. At that time the common area facilities (storm water drainage facilities and a few foot paths) had not been built.

Since then, as these facilities were constructed, I assume they were inspected and approved by the Township. Once approved by the Township I guess they automatically become property of the HOA.

Most of these facilities are now buried underground and would be difficult or impossible to inspect if we hire an Engineer. I called the Township and they are checking to see if any report is available.

At some point in the future, if we discover something improper in the construction of these facilities, we can negotiate with (or sue) the declarant to correct any defects, providing there is no statute of limitation on when a defect is discovered.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Joseph posted:
"Since then, as these facilities were constructed, I assume they were inspected and approved by the Township. Once approved by the Township I guess they automatically become property of the HOA."

Comment: I suggest you check with the Township to confirm inspection and approval; and who now owns and should maintain such items as water drainage and foot paths.

"Most of these facilities are now buried underground and would be difficult or impossible to inspect if we hire an Engineer. I called the Township and they are checking to see if any report is available."

Comment: Good idea. Get copies and confirm the Developer satifactorily completed everything in their original proposal prior to getting approval for the development.

"At some point in the future, if we discover something improper in the construction of these facilities, we can negotiate with (or sue) the declarant to correct any defects, providing there is no statute of limitation on when a defect is discovered."

Comment: That is why a physical audit is needed as well as a financial audit during the transition.

KaushalV (New Jersey)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Joseph, I would like to respond to your comments:

"...Since then, as these facilities were constructed, I assume they were inspected and approved by the Township. Once approved by the Township I guess they automatically become property of the HOA."
--> Don't be so sure about automatic ownership transfer of common elements. There needs to be a final Plat map or a deed filed with the county clerk's office showing ownership to HOA. And the builder needs to do this for you. Our builder forgot to do this and he has now agreed to get it done through his attorney.

Most of these facilities are now buried underground and would be difficult or impossible to inspect if we hire an Engineer. I called the Township and they are checking to see if any report is available.
--> As I understand, even underground pipes can be inspected by camera-on-flexible-tube. It's a matter of your confidence on the builder and affordability. If the Township has done a thorough job, that could be a risk mitigation tool.

At some point in the future, if we discover something improper in the construction of these facilities, we can negotiate with (or sue) the declarant to correct any defects, providing there is no statute of limitation on when a defect is discovered.
Somebody help us out here....isn't there a statute of limitation after which you can sue the builder?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Take a look at davis-sterling.com; scroll to "developer" to get some more ideas. While some of it is specific to CA, there's still useful info.

I believe that statutes of limitation may vary by state. I do know that some defects, "patent defects," that should have been noticed by a reasonably observant person, have a limit of three years from when first observed.

Some HOA boards, including our old ones, thought that anything discovered as defective within 10 years could be litigated. They were mistaken.

Please don't assume that your properties have defects, but do take the steps that some have recommended. Also know that just because a component is approved by the building dept.,or similar authority, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's NOT defective.

Take a look at your reserve study too to see if the estimated life and cost to replace components makes sense. Some developers do overestimate the life span and underestimate the replacement cost to keep the initial dues low to help them sell their product.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KaushalV on 07/04/2012 10:17 AM
Joseph, I would like to respond to your comments:

At some point in the future, if we discover something improper in the construction of these facilities, we can negotiate with (or sue) the declarant to correct any defects, providing there is no statute of limitation on when a defect is discovered.

Somebody help us out here....isn't there a statute of limitation after which you can sue the builder?

A statute of limitations puts a cap on how long you may have to file a lawsuit against another party. Statutes of limitations varies greatly from state to state, not only in terms of how long but also when the clock starts.

There may be multiple statutes of limitations in a single state. Oral contracts, written contracts, personal injuries, libel, and construction defects may all have their own statutes of limitation.

If a developer installs a defective storm sewer, for example, some states hold that the clock starts when the storm sewer was completed and others may say the clock does not start until you first discover the defect.

From personal experience I have found that statute of limitations is one of the trickiest areas of the law. So tricky, in fact, that if you ask two lawyers, as I once did, you will get two entirely different answers.

If you have concerns that there are construction defects the time to start discussing these with your lawyer is today.

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