SuziC (Arizona)
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
I may be in the wrong place. Want to find out if there is a legal ruling about a husband and wife serving on a board as President and Treasurer.
A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
husband and wife serving on board as Pres. and Treasurer
Started by SuziC • 31 replies • 6749 views
💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
if they received enough votes to be on the board, (and the HOA by-laws do not prevent two people from the same household serving), then that's what democracy is all about.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posts: 480
Posted:
Rules for the makeup of the board and requirements for serving will be found in two places. (1) The bylaws for your specific Associtaion, and (2) the laws of the state of Arizona if your Association is incorporated under those laws.
In our case the Georgia state laws say anyone over 18 years of age is eligible to serve on the board, but out bylaws prevent two persons representing the same Lot from serving on the board at the same time.
Check your governing documents.
In our case the Georgia state laws say anyone over 18 years of age is eligible to serve on the board, but out bylaws prevent two persons representing the same Lot from serving on the board at the same time.
Check your governing documents.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
We have a husband wife team on our Board. The husband was the first Board member then at the annual meeting his wife was nominated as a Board member. Someone mentioned a husband and wife should not serve on the Board aat the same time. But we educated our members to the fact that our documents do not prevent this. And am I ever glad that our documents don't prevent this. In my opinion the wife is a great benefit to our community. Also I have someone who I agree with on most items and don't feel as though I am a lone invisisble voice.
A big problem we have is with few people able and willing to serve on the Board.
A big problem we have is with few people able and willing to serve on the Board.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Restrictions of who can be allowed to serve on the Board or in an office would be contained within your governing documents.
Typically, it's not a good idea to have two members from the same household serve. This is mainly due to perception issues rather than actual issues.
Perhaps you can help remove the perception issue by volunteering to serve on the Board.
Typically, it's not a good idea to have two members from the same household serve. This is mainly due to perception issues rather than actual issues.
Perhaps you can help remove the perception issue by volunteering to serve on the Board.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SuziC on 07/03/2012 6:24 AM
I may be in the wrong place. Want to find out if there is a legal ruling about a husband and wife serving on a board as President and Treasurer.
I may be in the wrong place. Want to find out if there is a legal ruling about a husband and wife serving on a board as President and Treasurer.
I am unaware of any statutes or common law in Arizona that would prohibit this. In most associations, the members elect the board of directors and the BOD elects/hires/appoints the officers, such as the president and treasurer. From what I have seen, most association BOD's elect the officers from among the board members. Check your CC&R's and/or bylaws to see if there is a prohibition on having either two board members or two officers from the same household.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Serving on the board is one thing.
Giving a property two votes on HOA matters is another. If the Treasurer and President are casting votes on matters, then there is no equal protection for all dues payers, whose property is worth one vote or proxy vote when applicable.
This is fundamental from my perspective.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 07/03/2012 6:57 PM
Serving on the board is one thing.
Giving a property two votes on HOA matters is another. If the Treasurer and President are casting votes on matters, then there is no equal protection for all dues payers, whose property is worth one vote or proxy vote when applicable.
This is fundamental from my perspective.
Serving on the board is one thing.
Giving a property two votes on HOA matters is another. If the Treasurer and President are casting votes on matters, then there is no equal protection for all dues payers, whose property is worth one vote or proxy vote when applicable.
This is fundamental from my perspective.
Kelly:
Only Board Members (and not homeowners) vote on board business. While having a husband and wife on the board means there are two votes on the board from the same household, this does not give them two votes when voting as members. Homeowners who are not on the board have zero votes when voting on board business.
Without knowing all the details, we must assume that the husband and wife were elected by the homeowners/members and the members are comfortable with having a couple on the board. If not, they have the power to remove one or both from the board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am not a fan of husband and wife serving on the same board. I feel they should altenate who is in office every year. That is what the couple did in my HOA. They would each run every other year. It helped in many ways that way. However, due to the lack of participation and volunteers in many HOA's have to make it work. Can't judge how a HOA runs sometimes if it's working it is working. There comes a point where you all have to realize that you are all in charge of the decision making and there is no "They or them". So if this couple is willing and other members agree with it, then okay. Just wouldn't make it a big deal unless their was more people interested in the positions and didn't get them.
Former HOA President
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Rather than question whether you can find a reason why not I would ask just what kind of job they are doing. Are they serving in their positions well and is the property better off?
Or is it you have a personality conflict and just want to make waves?
I honestly don't care who serves I simply need members who have the desrie to do their jobs.
Now some folks have a bone to pick when the property owners elect two such members and then they spend their time searching for some support to cause problems. In many cases they have an agenda not in the best interest of the property. Chances are if you have one family member doing a great job the spouse would be the same kind of addition.
In today's world where many properties have such a difficult time finding people willing to serve rather than sneaking around looking for ways to disrupt the membership of two people from the same household I would rather you simply say thank you.
And their is no set rule good or bad yes or no depends on the property and those involved.
As for the two vote per household issue if elected to the Board BOTH members get ot vote it does NOT prevent Board members from the same household from voting in their elected capacities.
Or is it you have a personality conflict and just want to make waves?
I honestly don't care who serves I simply need members who have the desrie to do their jobs.
Now some folks have a bone to pick when the property owners elect two such members and then they spend their time searching for some support to cause problems. In many cases they have an agenda not in the best interest of the property. Chances are if you have one family member doing a great job the spouse would be the same kind of addition.
In today's world where many properties have such a difficult time finding people willing to serve rather than sneaking around looking for ways to disrupt the membership of two people from the same household I would rather you simply say thank you.
And their is no set rule good or bad yes or no depends on the property and those involved.
As for the two vote per household issue if elected to the Board BOTH members get ot vote it does NOT prevent Board members from the same household from voting in their elected capacities.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 07/04/2012 5:53 AM
Rather than question whether you can find a reason why not I would ask just what kind of job they are doing. Are they serving in their positions well and is the property better off?
Or is it you have a personality conflict and just want to make waves?
I honestly don't care who serves I simply need members who have the desrie to do their jobs.
Now some folks have a bone to pick when the property owners elect two such members and then they spend their time searching for some support to cause problems. In many cases they have an agenda not in the best interest of the property. Chances are if you have one family member doing a great job the spouse would be the same kind of addition.
In today's world where many properties have such a difficult time finding people willing to serve rather than sneaking around looking for ways to disrupt the membership of two people from the same household I would rather you simply say thank you.
And their is no set rule good or bad yes or no depends on the property and those involved.
As for the two vote per household issue if elected to the Board BOTH members get ot vote it does NOT prevent Board members from the same household from voting in their elected capacities.
Rather than question whether you can find a reason why not I would ask just what kind of job they are doing. Are they serving in their positions well and is the property better off?
Or is it you have a personality conflict and just want to make waves?
I honestly don't care who serves I simply need members who have the desrie to do their jobs.
Now some folks have a bone to pick when the property owners elect two such members and then they spend their time searching for some support to cause problems. In many cases they have an agenda not in the best interest of the property. Chances are if you have one family member doing a great job the spouse would be the same kind of addition.
In today's world where many properties have such a difficult time finding people willing to serve rather than sneaking around looking for ways to disrupt the membership of two people from the same household I would rather you simply say thank you.
And their is no set rule good or bad yes or no depends on the property and those involved.
As for the two vote per household issue if elected to the Board BOTH members get ot vote it does NOT prevent Board members from the same household from voting in their elected capacities.
Well said. I agrree.
SuziC (Arizona)
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thank you all so much for your comments. You have been quite helpful.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Larry,
Sure, property owners enjoy certain voting privileges on certain HOA board matters. The board election is the most fundamental of this privileges. Nonetheless, having one property enjoy the benefits of TWO director votes on HOA business, which is representative of the whole community, is even more troubling because the board decides the vast majority of business matters.
Sure, property owners enjoy certain voting privileges on certain HOA board matters. The board election is the most fundamental of this privileges. Nonetheless, having one property enjoy the benefits of TWO director votes on HOA business, which is representative of the whole community, is even more troubling because the board decides the vast majority of business matters.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posts: 480
Posted:
The other troubling aspect of having a husband and wife serve on the board is the inevitable discussions about Association business that they will have outside of a meeting with the other board members. Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds.
There is an obligation of board members to avoid even the appearance of impropriety in their dealings as fiduciaries for the members of the Association. It would look far better and more correct if the Association could find people not related to each other to serve together on the board.
There is an obligation of board members to avoid even the appearance of impropriety in their dealings as fiduciaries for the members of the Association. It would look far better and more correct if the Association could find people not related to each other to serve together on the board.
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posts: 154
Posted:
"Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds."
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayP3 on 07/04/2012 9:31 AM
"Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds."
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
"Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds."
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
And maybe even pillow talk......LOL
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I think most HOA directors gloss over their upcoming business agenda and get a "gut feeling" about how they stand on many issues that are brought for discussion. I see and hear of the time-honored rivalry between the Flower/Landscape lovers and the Reserve Fund Hawks.
It's "extra money!" they say. "No, it's for replacements we know we'll be paying for in the coming years!" "I may be dead by then!" and back and forth.
Great fun.
WillK1 (New Jersey)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Sounds like an OK but less then ideal situation. It probably would be a good thing to look for an alternate board member for the next election. Nothing vindictive, just do it because there are good reasons to "spread out" the board.
If you can't find an alternate, then that's probably the bigger problem.
If you can't find an alternate, then that's probably the bigger problem.
FernandoM (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayP3 on 07/04/2012 9:31 AM
"Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds."
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
"Much of the decision process will be truncated when 2 members of the board come to meetings having already deliberated and made up their minds."
This likely happens more than you might imagine regardless.
3 of our 5 live in the span of 4 houses. It would be naieve to think they don't conduct 'sidewalk' or 'driveway' meetings frequently.
Thet still have to vote publicly and answer member queries so I don't see the harm.
True, we have three board members. All live on the same block and that is how some if any decisions are made. All this board stuff is great if run correctly - not in our community.
I agree, not a good idea having two board members living under one roof, "perception is reality."
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
This thread forced me to re-read my own HOA rules. No property in my HOA is allowed more than one vote. So, maybe the number of votes per property is truly a local, neighborhood matter.
I'd never support giving one property two votes on an HOA board. I defies representative politics.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kelly
Interesting approach. One vote per unit so how could joint unit owners both be on the BOD?
Interesting approach. One vote per unit so how could joint unit owners both be on the BOD?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
One Lot - One Vote applies to votes by the general membership.
One Director - One vote applies to votes by the Board.
One Director - One vote applies to votes by the Board.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
As Tim has pointed out the one vote per unit rule in most cases deals with property wide votes of ALL unit owners.
Therefore, you have 100 units the max. number of votes you might have being 100.
Another area completly is the elected Board members and votes they will be called to make as BOARD members not unit owners.
Two unrelated situations NOT covered in the by-laws.
Reading each unit has ONE vote does not pertain to service as Board members.
Not every unit owner has a vote on Board matters just the members of the Board. To confuse unit ownership versus membership on the Board is misunderstanding what is contained in the documents of most properties.
Now if you decide to vote against people living in the same unit from serving IMO that fails to consider what type of job they muight actually do. I want the best, most hard working, most serious if they come from the same unit that is not an issue. Therefore, I would not ban owners from the same unit holding Board positions as is the case in most documents. Sort of throws out several babies with the bathwater.
Is their any legal grounds to prohibit two unit owners from the same unit serving? In many cases no.
Therefore, you have 100 units the max. number of votes you might have being 100.
Another area completly is the elected Board members and votes they will be called to make as BOARD members not unit owners.
Two unrelated situations NOT covered in the by-laws.
Reading each unit has ONE vote does not pertain to service as Board members.
Not every unit owner has a vote on Board matters just the members of the Board. To confuse unit ownership versus membership on the Board is misunderstanding what is contained in the documents of most properties.
Now if you decide to vote against people living in the same unit from serving IMO that fails to consider what type of job they muight actually do. I want the best, most hard working, most serious if they come from the same unit that is not an issue. Therefore, I would not ban owners from the same unit holding Board positions as is the case in most documents. Sort of throws out several babies with the bathwater.
Is their any legal grounds to prohibit two unit owners from the same unit serving? In many cases no.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
In my HOA, it's written in the by-laws and it's a quirk. We had two people, from the same property, join the board. But our HOA rules were clear. One property doesn't get more than one vote nor can a property owner receive a fractional vote, thus lessening their "voice." The person could serve but not vote. Their vote counted the same as the vacant board positions that we have (15 members allowed but 8 to 9 are filled). Our rules don't say you can't volunteer for board service. I agree it's weird but w/out limits, three properties could effectively dictate board business.
Note: Our HOA board handles all votes except assessments, dues increases above the CPI-W indexed rate and the removal of board members. Those are direct democratic votes or proxied votes.
Note: Our HOA board handles all votes except assessments, dues increases above the CPI-W indexed rate and the removal of board members. Those are direct democratic votes or proxied votes.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I am asking if only one vote per unit, is the balance fair if more then one owner can serve on the BOD at the same time?
Bylaws aside, how many think it is fair, not fair?
While I know there can be a shortage of people willing to be BOD members, I lean toward not fair.
Bylaws aside, how many think it is fair, not fair?
While I know there can be a shortage of people willing to be BOD members, I lean toward not fair.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree it's not fair.
That said, I was ready to name my wife and adult daughter to the board in order to have a quorum when I had zero volunteers and no quorum on the Baord. Fortunately, at the last minute a couple of members stepped up and I didn't have to resort to that.
That said, I was ready to name my wife and adult daughter to the board in order to have a quorum when I had zero volunteers and no quorum on the Baord. Fortunately, at the last minute a couple of members stepped up and I didn't have to resort to that.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I also add look at this scenario. One unit, multi owners. The BOD ends up being made up of just owners of that one unit.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/09/2012 3:10 PM
I agree it's not fair.
That said, I was ready to name my wife and adult daughter to the board in order to have a quorum when I had zero volunteers and no quorum on the Baord. Fortunately, at the last minute a couple of members stepped up and I didn't have to resort to that.
I agree it's not fair.
That said, I was ready to name my wife and adult daughter to the board in order to have a quorum when I had zero volunteers and no quorum on the Baord. Fortunately, at the last minute a couple of members stepped up and I didn't have to resort to that.
Tim
I understand, but when does one cross the line from benevolent dictator to dictator....I know I cross it rather quickly...LOL
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
MY HOA by-laws also demand proportional representation since we're a master association, comprise of mini-neighborhoods (Condos, Town homes, bunaglows, and single family houses) that feature their own HOAs.
Our developer skinned the cat on this for us.
It also capped our dues at the inflation rate while our vendors ignore the inflation rate when trying to jack up contract rates.
It's a lot of fun, I tell you.
Maybe it's fine to have multiple board votes for one property, I just think you don't concentrate political power when the "regular" dues payer can't concentrate his votes without owning multiple properties. Having zero board volunteers renders this moot. Something is better than nothing.
Our developer skinned the cat on this for us.
It also capped our dues at the inflation rate while our vendors ignore the inflation rate when trying to jack up contract rates.
It's a lot of fun, I tell you.
Maybe it's fine to have multiple board votes for one property, I just think you don't concentrate political power when the "regular" dues payer can't concentrate his votes without owning multiple properties. Having zero board volunteers renders this moot. Something is better than nothing.
NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posts: 119
Posted:
We have a 5 person Board and our by-laws also prevent two persons representing the same Lot from serving on the board at the same time.
JeanI (Louisiana)
Posts: 112
Posts: 112
Posted:
Who elects the HOA officers? Our Board elects its officers so if they are uncomfortable with two members of the same household as officers, don't select them. JeanI
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jean
Personally I would not even allow husband and wife to serve on the BOD together, nevermind as officers.
Personally I would not even allow husband and wife to serve on the BOD together, nevermind as officers.
🎯 You've read this entire discussion
Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:
- ✓ Ask follow-up questions
- ✓ Share your experience
- ✓ Get expert advice
- ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in here