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LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
We have 5 Director positions. We had 4 openings in the last year which were filled by appointing people without an election to complete the terms of the several directors who resigned.
Well now there was an executive (secret and closed ) meeting this month and they decided to go from 1 and 2 year terms to vote themselves in for 3 year terms. That decision was made by these appointed directors and now 225 of us have to live with it. What can we do to oppose these changes in term years. I beleived appointees stayed on only until the next yearly election but was told they finish the 2 and 3 year terms.
Our bylaws state we have one 1 yr term; two 2-year terms and two 3-year terms. Since next year is our 6th year of having a board "all" 5 positions should filled by new openings at an election. But they want to stay on through 2014. These same 5 people are on the ACC committee ; the by=laws committee and the nominating committee and the community beautification committee ------See our problem???
Also the have an "executive" meeting each month in private and an open meeting to tell us what they decided. Help!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Lynne, the CC&R's spell out how directors are elected and the term they serve and most likely can't be changed by a simple Board vote. I would politely point out the relevant section to the Board and ask how they can change it without a homeowner vote.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne

Our BOD terms, conditions, etc. are in our Bylaws, not our CC&R's but as Glen said, the BOD cannot just change them. It takes a vote of the homeowners. In our case 51% to change Bylaws and 67% to change CC&R's.

I would simply find the appropriate section and draw it to the BOD's attention.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Lynne,

Your documents, normally the bylaws but sometimes the CCRs, specify the terms of board members and how vacancies are to be filled and for how long those filling the vacancies may serve. Some state laws also cover this. I have seen some requirements state that a person may be appointed to fill a vacancy for the remainder of the unexpired term, or sometimes for the remainder of the unexpired term or the next annual election, whichever occurs first.

However, normally the board cannot determine the length of the terms of its own members by a simple board vote. This usually requires a change to the governing documents. Our bylaws, in fact, specifically prohibit the board from setting the terms of its own members and from determining the qualifications of its own members.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
In a polite and logical world, I could point that out to them. However at last month's open meeting they said they ware confused as to the terms of the 2 new appointed members -- so I typed out when each persons term should end. One should definitely end this year and all five positions would end next year as the two 3 yr terms would be up ; both 2 yr terms would be up and the 1 yr term would be up.... No one replied to my e-mails and now the person with a one year term(ending 09/2012) and one with a 2-yr term (endg 09/2013) voted themselves to stay on until 2014 and the others all shifted terms ..."
If after raising your hand, if you point out something at a meeting they say - "You are out of order - leave." I was on the board as treasurer this year and quit as I was told that I was not allowed to speak at the meetings. I find it very odd that all board members cannot talk outloud to each other at open community monthy meetings. There are no discussions - the president announces the decisions they made at the secret closed monthly executive meetings. This is so wrong!
How can we enforce our by-laws and C C & R's ?? If logic does not prevail, can we, the home owners ask to have our community lawyer to step in or can we petition to have them all removed?
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Our by-laws state appointees "shall server for the remainder of the term such successor was appointed to fill."

Since no one is rushing in to take over their positions -they should just run on a ballot when each position is open and get elected. But instead. they have decided to play games and turn 1 yr terms into 3 yr terms.

Thank you all so much. I am not sure what turns normal people into rude, bossy, and arrogant people once they get onto the board in my community. I will bring up your points at our next meeting and hope logic and manners prevail.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
i also think that an executive session is not allowed to decide such changes in by-laws, regardless of whether the BOD can even make such changes, they certainly can't do it in executive sessions.

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
If the Board will not listen to reason, send out your concerns to the entire community. This is expensive but worth it in the end. Get the community behind you to elect a board that obeys its own bylaws.
Jeanne
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeanneK3 on 07/01/2012 1:53 PM
If the Board will not listen to reason, send out your concerns to the entire community. This is expensive but worth it in the end. Get the community behind you to elect a board that obeys its own bylaws.
Jeanne

Good way to do it. This also can set up a network/methodology to get concerned people elected to the BOD.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
I haven't seen your governing documents, but they sound similar to ours. I think that the variable length terms apply only to the very first board, and subsequent board members will be elected for a fixed term (probably 3 years in your case). This avoids having the board turn over completely, as you are saying would happen in your 6th year.

So start with the first board after taking control from the developer. In that board there ought to be 5 terms starting out -- one 1-year term, two 2-year terms, and two 3-year terms. In the second year the one 1-year term expires and a new director is elected for a full 3-year term. In the 3rd year, 2 terms expire and 2 directors are elected, each for 3-year terms. From then on there are either 1 or 2 directors replaced each year with newly elected directors serving full 3-year terms. (1 director replaced in years 2, 5, 8, etc. and 2 directors replaced in all other years.)

So each of your currently serving directors is either in their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year of a 3-year term. You should have them self-identify to know which 3 will stay and which 2 will be replaced at your next annual meeting.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Our bylaws also state the term lengths the same way that Lawrence explains them. If the board is so "confused," perhaps they need to consult with your HOA attorney a get an opinion in writing.

If the board refuses, band with other concerned owners & chip in to pay for 1/2 hr. of the attorneys time.

And don't give up; we endured a terrible board here until a bunch of us formed a group, and eventually got a majority on the board. It only took one election cycle.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Thanks to all of you and for the good advice. I thought we finally had a great board of directors and hoped they would be open and honest. Then they get greedy and say they are staying for 3 yrs ... You are right. If they cannot understand the by-laws and term limits--- they should not be on the board at all. I just sent out an e-mail to all of them objecting to their changes and asked for a response.... we shall see!
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 07/01/2012 4:33 PM
Then they get greedy and say they are staying for 3 yrs ...

Lynn,

If you read my previous post, I point out that your documents likely say that directors should stay for 3 years.

Their intention to stay for 3 years may not be greed but a desire to follow the rules.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynn

I think what Lawrence is saying is that in the initial turnover to the owners/startup there can be confusion on terms, etc. even when stated in the docs. Often this can be settled with a one time Rule and Regulation by the BOD.

Also there can be differences in docs when someone is appointed to a vacancy. Are they appointed only to fill the vacant term or for a full term? It is usually in the docs but it can get quite tricky in terms of terms, overlapping terms, etc., and often end up where not intended nor expected to be.

Also quite often when no one (or not enough to fill vacanies) want to run. The BOD ends up (done properly so) with the same people year after year.

Rather then "dictate" to the BOD what you believe (when so and so's terms ends, etc.), try approaching them from a please explain to me how you did/arrived at so and so.

Hope this helps.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Ooooops. That may not have been what Lawrence meant.....but the rest of my response stands....I think.....I need another drink........LOL

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/01/2012 5:51 PM
Ooooops. That may not have been what Lawrence meant.....but the rest of my response stands

John,

Indeed.

But what you say about asking and listening first is excellent advice.
NancyG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 119
Posted:
Lynn, our association went through this a couple of years ago. Our Board wanted to vote for Officers instead of Directors. Homeowners do not vote for Officers. Anyway, you need some other homeowners to help you. I contacted some homeowners that I knew were interested in our association and they wrote the BOD and they finally changed their minds and held the election the correct way. For your info our covenants read "After the applicable date (turned over to the homeowners), three of the directors elected pursuant to Article IV shall be elected to serve for a term of two (2) years. Two (2)of the remaining directors shall be elected to serve for a term of one (1) year. Members of the Board of Directors shall hold office until their respective successors are elected, or until they are removed or resign. Each Director elected thereafter shall be elected for a two (2)year term." The most important sentence is the last one. What we have is one year 2 directors are voted in for 2 years, the next year 3 directors are voted in for 2 years, so on and on. When voting for a director's position that becomes vacant before their 2 years are up the person selected to replace him replaces his term in office. (Example: if he was serving 2 years and resigned after 1 year the person taking his place would only serve 1 year and would then have to run and be elected. Then he would serve a 2 year term. I hope this helps. But, you really need other homeowners to back you up. Good luck.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
NancyG1 - I like that info and the second line of "...thereafter each person shall serve for 2 yr terms.." is great! We do not have that.
Also JohnC46 points out "end of term versus end of the full term" is a good point.
I just was told by a neighbor that my math of everyone's term ending after six years was wrong...but it isn't! We only started elections in 9/2007 and we should have a paper trail. Mostly the same people do run so if an election were held they would win honestly ..and I have no problem with the people involved - just their tactics.
Thanks again to all of you!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,060
Posted:
Lynne,

You need to clear up the confusion by citing the documents and the law. Typically corporate law specifies that appointed directors only serve to the end of the term they were appointed to. If the Board wants to change the term length (and are allowed to do so), that change would take place when the current term expires.

Have you checked your corporate laws?

Tim
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
We are young community of 230 homeowners in SC - we have by-laws and covenants and restrictions only. No corporate laws for ourt community that I know of.

Of concern to me are the monthly "executive" meetings where they conduct business in secret with no community members allowed inside.

They recently decided to fine h/o for feeding ducks without any input from us and decided motorcycles & trailers could be parked here during bike week - even though our by-laws say no bikes or trailers. We have 3 bike weeks a year. one month later they changed their minds.
Now they want no parking on our streets at all. When does it stop? Changes to our by-laws are fine but only with a 2/3 community vote! lets put it in writing and mail it to everyone.
June 6th 2012 they announced we will need 1 million to dredge our 6 small ponds within 5 yrs -- special assessments would be mailed out ... 2 weeks later at their private meeting they changed their minds and put it in the minutes that the ponds could wait for 30 yrs....
Thanks for letting me vent.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Tim is referring to SC's state corporate laws. Often such laws fill in some gaps when an HOA's docs are unclear or are incomplete. JohnC46, also from SC, may be able to help.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne

SC has the SC Horizontal Propery Act (SCHPA) (SC 27-31-10).

SCHPA was aimed at high rise condo buildings and it does not apply to most anything else, including single family home associations.

Any non-profit association is also governed by SC Nonprofit Corporation Act (SC 33-31-10).

There was a bill before the SC House to regulate single family home associations but it has gotten hung up in committees and is more then likely dead.

Basically in SC as long as a single family homes association follows the SC Nonprofit Corporation Act, it can pretty much write its CC&R's and Bylaws any darn way it so desires to. In any association other the a high rise apartment style condo building, do not go looking for SC rules and regulations to help you out. SC defers to the associations CC&R's and Bylaws.

Peronally I do not want lawyers and politicians involved. They generally screw up more then they help. Think Sterling-Davis.

Hope this helps.

LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
thanks Tim, then Carol and finally to JohnC - you are so smart -glad I posted I learned a lot.I will be ready for the next meeting to politely ask what is going on! And I just questioned my neighbor as to how all the people who were there last Sept and Oct during the vote...suddenly forgot the lengths of their terms...??? bye!

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