Fairness- Equal

My Husband and I moved in our neighborhood a year ago and he has always driven a company vehicle since he has had his job. Well we did not know anything of commercial vehicles not being allowed in the neighborhood. Well, we were recently cited. We responded saying that we would like to request a hearing and that our solution would be to cover my husbands car. They denied and said that if we have a garage we need to keep it in there. We use our Garage for many other things and one of them is we don't park our vehicles in it. After receiving the letter for them to place our car in the garage I called and asked if I could have an appeal. They told me no. THE Board of Directors is the final decision and I could not have an appeal.

Well number one I spoke to 2 other residents and one of them lives in a town home and they were allowed to put panels on there commercial vehicle and the other who lives in a single family home like me her husband has had to cover his car for the last 8 yrs she said.

The BOD also mentioned that previous Boards have allowed but they were denied us.

I need some help. I mean I looked over the regulations but I cant find anything that says #1 I cant have an appeal and #2 two that previous boards allowed for a car to be covered and now its not allowed or 3, car covers are not allowed.

I'm in need of some good advice. The Board meeting is upon me and so Im trying to gather as much info as I can so that they would allow us to do this.

if your covenants and restrictions state you may not park a commercial vehicle ... then ... you may not park a commercial vehicle

period ... end of story

previous boards did NOT have the authority to modify this

garages are for motor vehicles

if you don't like your home .. sell it and move along

if you don't like the CCRs .. petition for a change

CAVEAT EMPTOR

ps. all a lawsuit would accomplish is to make all other commercial vehicle comply with the CCRs .. not exempt you from the CCRs attached to your deed (they were and are public documents) .. check with your closing attorney and ask why/how you were 'blindsided'

sorry for the bad tidings w/o sugar coating

What steps would I take for petitioning? Because that will be my next step if they deny me after the next meeting. I'm simply asking that I would cover the car with a car cover so that it would be hidden. The office told me that, that is the goal. So, a car cover would suffice...especially since they have given permission to others in the past for it.

Garage is for parking cars and for workshops among other things. Not everyone who uses a garage parks there car in it.

I'm simply want to be treated and given the same (fair)treatment that have allowed others in the past.

My last neighborhood restricted overnight parking of commercial vehicles. Even though each home at least a two car garage, we still had issues. Our reply was read the CC&R's, they are very clear on the subject.

We had an incident on was a SUV with the name, address, phone, et. of a real estate agent on the back window considered commercial? We said yes.

One person raised the question of were police cars commercial vehicles? Care to guess how we handled that....LOL

It seems like there is nothing I can do to give them a reason as to why they would allow for him to cover his car except just hope they feel sorry for my situation.

If I ever move I will definitely consider homes that are managed by a hoa but I've never experienced this before so all is. We to me

it's not much, but... You should thoroughly read and understand what the definition your HOA has written for a commercial vehicle. For instance, is it a vehicle licensed and registered as a commercial vehicle with the state? Is it a normal vehicle used to advertise a commercial enterprise? Is it a certain size or style of vehicle (ie, truck with work racks/toolbox beds, lift gates, etc.). Only when you absolutely understand what is a commercial vehicle can you decide a) if yours is and b) what can be done about it.

Depending on the definition, one might argue the standard is too broad, or one might have magnetic decals made to take on and off, or one might be able to cover over the problem, etc.. Or, one may be stuck.

I agree with looking into the definition of a CV per your docs.

While I don't agree logos alone are unsightly because most cars are sold with the dealers logo or similar name badge or license plate frame on them it may be as simple as covering up the logo etc.

Now if there are strobe lights, ladder/equipment racks, crane, lift bucket or other equipment mounted on the vehicle you may have less chance of success in reducing the unsightlyness and obtaining compliance.

One could argue that this kind of restriction lowers property values simply because it narrows the universe of people willing and/or able to live there. It would be an anomaly in the law of supply and demand to have higher property values coupled with reduced demand. Most of these restrictions don't serve an actual function or raise property values and tend to only affect the quality of life of those subject to them.

Interestingly, theorists and professionals in the field are looking at innovative methods to reverse the problems inherent in HOAs. Along with acknowledgment of that local governmental oversight cannot be avoided, a partial list of remedies include:

• Movement from an emphasis on restrictiveness to quality of life


• Reliance on standards, not ironclad rules


• Empowering people rather than imposing rules


• Empowering renters and occupants


• Acknowledging the social tension inherent in balancing people and property relationships and responsibilities***

None of which helps the OP deal with her HOA.

***HOAs as Private Governments: A Special MiniSymposium. Public Administration Review; Jul/Aug2011, Vol. 71 Issue 4, p535-542, 8p, 1 Chart

KB,

I also think it will depend on the type of vehicle.

If it's a car, van, etc. with only signage, use magnetic signs and then remove them at night. (we allow this)

If its a vehicle with ladder racks, pipes, cables etc. typically, these are the things people don't want to see and covers typically can't hide (or hide well).

We had one individual trade his commercial vehicle in and got a van where everything could fit inside which eliminated the issue.

Tim

Was trying to attach some pics. Get error saying larger then 200KB when they are not. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Thanks Tim, it's a 04 ford escape so it's smaller than what he has driven in the pass.
He did use to have a van with ladders and the such but that was not in this neighborhood.
This Is just a ford escape to get him to the different offices he travels during the week. I actually got a message from my precint rep last night saying they would allow for us to be fit into the agenda for the next board meeting.

I think that folks should be chastised here for using the word "Nazi". That's just awful. The board members are just enforcing the rules.

In Northern VA, typically the Counties require 2.3 spaces per home and that includes the driveway and Garage space in townhome developments. Yes, that's not enough, but I know townhome areas in Burke where they have 4 spaces per home and that's still not enough (they are all filled up every night). The county also requires so much green space as part of density requirements. I have noticed that usually whenever someone has a commercial truck that is provided for them they also have another personal car. So a household that normally has 2 vehicles now has 3 vehicles. Besides the limited resources for parking there are a number of other reasons that commercial vehicles are not permitted. Personally, I would not want to live in an older community where they only have deed restrictions (not a true HOA). Different strokes for different folks.

Garages are for vehicles and I've thoroughly enjoyed the use of ours during snowmegedon and all the ice storms. I wish that we could alter our docs to mirror what the newer communites are doing about this. The newer docs often require owners to use their garages as a primary space. Also it says that if alter the use, rendering the garage unusable for a vehicle, displacing a car into the visitor spaces, then this is a violation. We have folks that are virtually operating their business (Electricians, Carpenters etc) out of their garage (using the space for storing their supplies and equipment. Other uses, Carpentry shop, Exercise/Workout room, Toy Storage room, (soccer coach storing equipment, nets etc), etc. Changing our docs would require 2/3's signature vote. That's not going to happen. So subtract all the unable garages in our community and now your down to about 2 spaces per home.

When it comes to parking spaces in our community, there seems to be a sense of entitlement. It's the "Mine" mentality. So I entitled to a visitor space, so I'm entitled to park in a fire lane, so I'm entitled to park over the common area sidewalk and block pedestrian traffic. I love it when folks move into the community (especially renters) and they complain about the lack of parking. Welcome to my world.

They say "why don't we cut down these trees, do away with all this green space and build 100 more spaces"? To that I say "Proffers".. Yes the county made the developer proffer the amenities, streets, other infrastructure and so much green space based on a formula (number of homes per acre)... Then I ask the person complaining if they would like to go to the county, submit a rezoning issue, work with the county engineers, pay for surveys, private civil engineers and come up with a new plan. Then go to the Board and ask them for the $120K for this project. I don't think so. Live with it. It's all about townhouse living.

When people purchase a home while working with an agent, they should know whether or not they want to live in an HOA or an older neighbor that only has deed restrictions. WHERE IS THE REALTOR IN ALL THIS? WHO ARE THE REALTORS? Do the realtors not abide by the Virginia state law and make sure that they order the HOA docs. Sellers, by law, are obligated to deliver the HOA documents to the Buyer and based on those documents Home Buyers have 3 days to decide whether they want to reside in a given community or to void the contract. This is mentioned in every real estate contract that I've ever seen in Virginia. Talk to your realtors on this. That's their job! Check it out - Here is the VA POA act link. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC55000000026000000000000

Also as of July 2012, there is a new addition to the VA POA act. You can pay a small fee and file a complaint through a review board. The Property Owners’ Association Act and Condominium Act created the Virginia Common Interest Community Board to investigate complaints about community association managers.

What I do find (amazingly) in many cases, is that purchasers actually do receive the HOA docs and we find out later that threw them under their bed. When these docs were produced by our property manager, the PM physically inspects the property to see if there are any maintenance issues or unapproved alterations. This is the most important part here. If the seller is being cited for significant maintenance issues or unapproved changes and if this is not addressed, the purchaser assumes the responsibility or liability here. So when the new owner gets a hearing letter a month after move in, they say, well I didn't know about these issues. Again, where is the Real Estate Agent?

Most good agents would order the docs right away when they list. That way they will not pretty quickly if there are any issues that need to be addressed. If you give the docs to your purchaser with conditions on the inspection report, that's the fastest way that I know of to spook the buyer. They have 3 days to review docs on a contingency and they will split in a heartbeat if they see something that they don't like. OR what's worse.. BUYER'S REMORSE. I sold our condo recently, ordered the docs the week before listing, sold the condo in days, and at the home inspection (3 days later) my selling agent gave them and docs and made them sign a document showing that they were received.

Good luck.

Forgot to mention also - It never ceases to amaze me (and our PM) that in many cases, the HOA docs are NOT ordered at all for a purchaser. The PM gets a query from the settlement attorney, provides them with the usual stuff but prior to that we never get a request for Docs. So we know that the new owner is total clueless as to the rules. Very unfortunate, but it happens frequently in our community.

Dave

My last HOA CC&R's defined any vehicle with signage on it, to be a commercial vehicle. It is well within the rights of an HOA to do so.

Also it has been shown time and time again that an HOA can have different rules then local/state government as long as the HOA rules do not violate local/state rules. Classic example is the locale says no fences can be higher then 8 feet but an HOA limits them to no higher then 4 feet.

Let us not forget the OP has a garage. I do not see why they could not make arrangements to park the vehicle in there. End of the issue for all.

Last I checked, my truck has three items of signage on it.. one says "Mitsubishi" anther says "Haddad Car Sales" and the last says "California" (actually, two of those, one on the front bumper, one on the back).

well then, what does your board define as "signage"? or advertisement?

Brian

I suppose if one wanted to cut and dice it a bumper sticker for an animal rescue service with an phone number could be considered a commercial sign.

Be reasonable.

Sure they can have different rules, but as we don't know what the particular rules are in this case, we can certainly refer to the definitions of others. As Brian said earlier, reading the bylaws and understanding the approved definition is critical (for both the board and those questioning the board's actions, in EVERY incidence, not just this one).

My bylaws are generally in line with the government definition of a commercial vehicle. They're written to prevent the tow truck driver, bus driver, truck driver, etc... from parking their work vehicle at home.

I have a neighbor that's a sheriff deputy. He parks his assigned, marked vehicle in his driveway. I wonder how many restrictive HOAs would respond in that case.

In Arizona, state law says:

33-1809. Parking; public service and public safety emergency vehicles; definition

A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit a resident from parking a motor vehicle on a street or driveway in the planned community if the vehicle is required to be available at designated periods at the person's residence as a condition of the person's employment and either of the following applies:

1. The resident is employed by a public service corporation that is regulated by the corporation commission, an entity regulated by the federal energy regulatory commission or a municipal utility and the public service corporation or municipal utility is required to prepare for emergency deployments of personnel and equipment for repair or maintenance of natural gas, electrical, telecommunications or water infrastructure, the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty thousand pounds or less and is owned or operated by the public service corporation or municipal utility and the vehicle bears an official emblem or other visible designation of the public service corporation or municipal utility.

2. The resident is employed by a public safety agency, including police or fire service for a federal, state, local or tribal agency or a private fire service provider or an ambulance service provider that is regulated pursuant to title 36, chapter 21.1, and the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand pounds or less and bears an official emblem or other visible designation of that agency.

B. For the purposes of this section, "telecommunications" means the transmission of information of the user's choosing between or among points specified by the user without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received. Telecommunications does not include commercial mobile radio services.