Confusion on owner voting rights for new board

Started by CharlesC14 • 8 replies • 1615 views

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CharlesC14 (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We have some confusion on our voting rights that are stated in our CCR'S. we have
8 units which used to be owned by Wells Fargo on a building forclousre. They are now all sold and when we went to vote for a HOA board we we're told by our management
company that each unit has 3 votes.

In reading our CCR'S I noticed that it had 2 memberships Class A and B.

Class A had one vote per unit and Class B which stated it was the declarant had
3 votes. It stated that the declarant was Wells Fargo.

We are all totally confused do each unit have 1 vote or 3 votes when electing a
HOA board?

Thank you
Chuck C
California

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

if Wells Fargo (as declarant) owned the unit(s) as of the 'record date' each unit would have 3 votes

if the units had been sold (no longer declarant owned) and recorded with the register of deeds as of the 'record date' each unit would then have 1 vote

'record date' = usually a fixed date 10-30 days in advance of the election established for the purpose of making (and distributing) the 'members list' .... many HOAs do not use a 'record date' .... unless it is in your by-laws the election date is the same as the record date

normally the declarant establishes class 'a' (himself) as 2-3 votes and subsequent owners as class 'b' with 1 vote in order to maintain control as long as possible

the confusion may be in the wording of your documents

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Charles three votes per candidate or three votes to elect x number of candidates i.e. if four people are running you can only vote for three of them.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

? W-T-F ?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

As Glen was pointing out, it could be that your Association allows for cumulative voting vs. plurality voting.

In plurality voting, it's one vote per lot per vacancy on the ballot.

In cumulative voting, it's one vote per vacancy per lot allocated to one or more candidates.

Example:

4 candidates (A,B,C,D), 3 vacancies.

In Plurality voting a member casts one vote for Candidate A, one vote for Candidate B and one vote for Candidate D.

In cumulative voting, a member may cast 2 votes for Candidate A and one vote for Candidate D
OR 3 votes for Candidate A OR 1 vote for A, 1 for B and 1 for D, OR any other combination that allocates the three votes.

Charles, does your governing documents allow for cumulative voting?

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Charles said,

"Class A had one vote per unit and Class B which stated it was the declarant had
3 votes. It stated that the declarant was Wells Fargo."

That doesn't sound like either plurality or cumulative voting to me.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceF1 on 06/27/2012 5:31 AM
Charles said,

"Class A had one vote per unit and Class B which stated it was the declarant had
3 votes. It stated that the declarant was Wells Fargo."

That doesn't sound like either plurality or cumulative voting to me.

Right. That section only says how many votes per lot not the method of voting.

Using my previous example, if the voting member was the declarant:

Example:

4 candidates (A,B,C,D), 3 vacancies, 3 votes per lot.

In Plurality voting the declarant could cast 3 votes for Candidate A, 3 votes for Candidate B and 3 votes for Candidate D.

In cumulative voting, the declarant could cast 8 votes for Candidate A and one vote for Candidate D
OR 9 votes for Candidate A OR 3 vote for A, 3 for B and 3 for D, OR any other combination that allocates the three votes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 06/26/2012 8:10 AM
if Wells Fargo (as declarant) owned the unit(s) as of the 'record date' each unit would have 3 votes

if the units had been sold (no longer declarant owned) and recorded with the register of deeds as of the 'record date' each unit would then have 1 vote

'record date' = usually a fixed date 10-30 days in advance of the election established for the purpose of making (and distributing) the 'members list' .... many HOAs do not use a 'record date' .... unless it is in your by-laws the election date is the same as the record date

normally the declarant establishes class 'a' (himself) as 2-3 votes and subsequent owners as class 'b' with 1 vote in order to maintain control as long as possible

the confusion may be in the wording of your documents

I agree.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Are you still controlled by the developer or are you homeowner controlled? This makes a difference. Your declarant could be the developer not the bank. However, if your owner controlled the most likely scenerio here is that you all did NOT rewrite your CC&R's reflect this. Once the owners take over, the 2 class voting goes out the door. Along with ALL of the references to the declarant/developer.

I suggest checking for this if your a newer HOA and turned over. You all may have bigger issues such as rewriting your documents and removing the developer's rights and references...

Former HOA President

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