Is my HOA's legal firm trying to scam me?

The home owner's association we belong to raised the HOA dues at some point in the past. The first time we were informed of the raise in rates was when we were contacted by the HOA's law firm by phone. The law firm claimed that because of fines, assessments, and legals fees, we now owed the HOA close to $2500. They claimed that HOA dues were raised from around $45 per quarter to $50-55 per quarter. The law firm wouldn't provide details of when the notice was sent from the HOA indicating new dues amount, and promised to send documents by certified mail with a detailed list of when the dues were increased, the exact number of payments I made that were short, exact breakdowns of assessments, fines, interest and legal fees.

I never saw those details and considered the possibility that I was actually be scammed. When I said that I'd like the documentation so that I could bring it to an HOA board meeting to discuss the owed dues, they emphatically told me that I was to not take the matter up with the board. This was probably a year ago.

Today, a summons arrived claiming I owe about $850, a significant amount less than what I was told over the phone.

This was the first communication I'd received directly from the law firm since the initial phone call. As I've told the HOA's law firm, I'm happy to pay whatever amount I owe in dues, but because I was never informed of the raise in dues I can't be expected to pay extraordinary fines, assessments, and legal fees.

To put things into perspective, if I was $10 short on every single quarterly payment since 2003 (the year we moved in), I'd owe $400 (not including interest of 12%). I've always been willing to be flexible. It's clearly unreasonable that the first piece of "documentation" of the owed debt I get is in the form of a summons.

Possibly relevant facts:

* I live on Oregon
* We've received news letters, warnings that news papers were piling up (there was a death in the family and unexpected travel - we were able to comply though), and other communication unrelated to dues by mail without issue.
* When the law firm told me that the dues had increased, I immediately adjusted the automatic bill pay amount.
* I'll be contacting attorneys tomorrow
* I've never missed a dues payment.

So, questions:

1. What should the HOA have done to communicate the increase in dues?
2. Can the HOA's law firm prohibit me from talking to the board?
3. Does the HOA's law firm have a case?
4. Should I ask the board if they're even aware of the fact that I've received a summons?

Look at your CC&R.

There should be something that indicates how you are required to be informed about an increase in the assessments.

Second see what your state says about how information is supposed to be forwarded to a member. There should be a code/law about notice requirement of an increase of assessment.

It would be unusual that you did not receive anything in writing because most CC&R and state laws would require it. That is, a phone call is not enough. If anything, it should have been a phone call AND a letter.

Likewise, I would advise a phone call and a letter.

I would contact the board. While the board has the right to an attorney, you have a right to verify with the board and other members that the information you are receiving is factual. So you'd just be asking for confirmation from the board that the fees were increased and when and that they fulfilled all the required elements of the CC&R and state. You'd want to see the financial records and meeting minutes that verify this information. Your state should have codes that allow you to request them and these usually require a written request and set a time limit to when the documents must be produced.

If you have a management company, then I would want to verify with them as well although it might be the case that records requests go through the board who passes this on to the management company.

It sounds suspicious to me because there should have been something given to you in writing at some time, particularly from a lawyer. When you say you received a summons, does this means for small claims court? Usually the collection would go to small claims court and an attorney doesn't handle matters in small claims court.

In any case, before I paid anyone, I would get everything in writing something that you should have done when initially contacted.

My question is why are you not attending HOA's meetings in the first place? Seems the place to get this information first hand. No offense but you are a member of the HOA and don't deserve to be "catered" to. You have to PARTICIPATE in your HOA it isn't something that should participate on you.

Suggestion go to a meeting and stop dealing with having to be contacted by a lawyer. It is that communication that causes the exact raise in dues to cover the costs of this activity. Seems a simple phone call or an attendance at a meeting would have resolved this issue a long time for ya. Now I have to say, you probably owe backdues and brought this onto yourself by not being more active in your situation.

Yes, you are being scammed. However your house is now in danger of being foreclosed on. For your own protection, I would send them the full amount and then sue the association in small claims court to get the money back.

Lawyers colluding with managers to steal people's homes was pretty easy in Maryland. However, with a recent law, the foreclosure time lines were extended, mediation is part of the process and there is now an entire agency in place to help owners facing foreclosure.

Now things are better here.
Jeanne

This is sound advice.

Update:

After leaving multiple messages with the accounting department of the MC I decided to get even more proactive. With a check in hand for the entire $850+ balance I drove to the management company's office intending to drop off the check. I also made note of the branch of my bank nearest to their office in case I needed to get a cashier's check instead.

When I arrived I asked the receptionist if it was OK to make a payment to my account. She said "Absolutely", took my check, noting my account number in the memo field, and said "I'll go grab a receipt. Be right back."

About 10 minutes later she came back out and said that an accountant would be out shortly with a receipt. She headed back from where she came, leaving me alone in the reception area. Another 5 minutes later a man came out and said "Michael, I'm the accountant for [MC's name]. I'm going to have to ask you to leave," holding my check out. I said "I don't understand. I'm paying my balance. Would a cashier's check be better?"

That's when 2 police officers walked in the front door, heading straight for me. I honestly they were there on unrelated business until they flanked me, one of them saying "Sir, please leave the property immediately." The accountant again indicated that he wanted me to take the check, which I did, though I was suddenly very confused. I said to the officer who had spoken to me "I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. I'm just dropping off a payment. Am I doing anything wrong?" - to which he answered "Not complying with a police officer might be considered wrong. I won't say this again. You are to leave the property immediately."

So I did. I walked out the door, totally and utterly shocked.

I'd understand if the accountant came out and said "you know what, we see that your account is being handled by the law firm now, so I can't help you - you'll need to talk to them." Instead, someone called the police.

Mind you, I'm a very polite, very tiny, very unthreatening human being. I didn't go in there angry. I didn't leave ranting messages. I went in there knowing that I could make the days better for the people I dealt with by just being a normal, not insane, patient human being. I handled myself extremely professionally.

The accountant? He was probably 6' 4", obviously athletic and probably double my weight. He probably used more energy pushing the buttons on the phone to call the police than he would have if he had if he'd just picked me up and tossed me out. I'll admit that right now, I'm having a difficult time giving the MC the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to imagine what experiences they've had in the past that make them react like they did. It's heartbreaking, truthfully.

Now, I'm totally torn between what to do next. Part of me says "cool off, call the law firm, sort it out", but part of me thinks that there's no way I should be talking to them without a lawyer helping me navigate.

Can they really refuse payment? I have very little trust that if I give the amount due to the HOA's law firm that it'll solve anything. I'm mentally exhausted from this, and so lacking in details, still, as to how it all went off the rails.

I'll make some calls. To be fair, I think it's totally within the rights of the MC to ask that I leave, as well as ask that police be present if they're concerned about any issues. I find out what I can, but I think a judge might consider it irrelevant.



Speaking of that - I just called the HOA's law firm. They're gone for the weekend, so it'll be Monday before I talk to them. I intend to pay the debt as soon as they're able to tell me where to send a check. I still think it'd be good to at least talk to an attorney. I'm wary though - I think there's enough about this case that's unconventional that, despite the debt to the HOA being low, might trigger dollar signs for a defense attorney. Then it'll become some sort of sick arms race where each side inflates everything. If I lose, I suffer directly, having to pay the HOAs legal fees. If I win, I still lose indirectly, having to pay the firms legal feels through association dues.



What does PM stand for? Property manager? It sounds like that's exactly what's happened in my case.

Aside from getting paid, what's the benefit for an HOA to allow a law firm to collect debts? Why not a traditional collection agency? Why allow the law firm to pile on unknown, additional fees? Seems ripe for abuse if you ask me and doesn't seem to help the home owner or the HOA in the long run.



Thanks for mentioning that. I'll be making a decision on the "get an attorney" or "go solo, reduce friction wherever possible" front over the weekend. Once I do, an answer will get filed for sure.

Michael

Tough love here,but I believe there might well be more of a history with you and the association versus you on this chat painting yourself as the innocent victim.

Have there ever been any Restraining Orders involved?

I sincerely hope you're kidding about restraining orders.

But I guess to some extent you're right. There is, in fact, some history. I'm not as innocent as you might think. I was once warned of a potential fine for some newspapers that were piling up while my family and I left for an unexpected overseas family funeral. The relative who was collecting our mail let us know about it and made sure to collect the papers as well.

I've had absolutely no issues with my HOA (aside from the current one, which is really the HOA's law firm and management company, not so much the HOA). Prior to this HOA, I'd lived in 4 different homes. Of the 4, 3 of them were part on an HOA. The only one that wasn't in an HOA was the first one. HOA's became very attractive after that first home. I like living in an HOA. Aside from the current speed bump, I have no reason to be dissatisfied with my current HOA and the good that they do in the neighborhood.

Ultimately, I gain nothing by "painting myself as the innocent victim" to this audience. I came here to get advice. What kind of advice would I get if I didn't try to describe the situation as clearly as possible. If I'd had some sort of complaint in the past with my HOA because I wanted to paint my house bright orange, I'd have mentioned it, as it'd help inform the advice I'd receive.

I'm definitely leaning towards this approach. My current motivation is to get the dues paid ASAP. Reducing any obstacles in the way of that goal seems like the right place to put effort.

I have to agree there is a smoking gun laying somewhere in this situation. Maybe it's just me, but I still do NOT understand the avoidance of an actual meeting attendance or phone call to the board. That's the FIRST place I would go in asking questions or finding information. A HOA is run by it's members and the management company is only there to do the will of the owners/members. So if the HOA is having issues with non payers they are going to request to the management company to handle the situation. That action may be hiring a lawyer to send out a notice or file a lien/foreclosure. The lawyer or management company may not be aware of the personal situation but only the business end. Which at times may require calling the law enforcement in certain situations.

It's my gut feeling here that you are somehow self sabotaging yourself. Your not playing "victim" as much as NOT taking the right actions to correct the situation. Instead of focusing on what the should have beens and the rules not followed, find out the process to pay up properly. You obvisously have a place to mail in or deliver your dues payments to. Why not make a phone call or write a letter requesting the amount owed on your account through them? You have a president, treasurer, secretary or board members to ask. Let's not forget your neighbors to ask questions. Your neighbors are members of the HOA too. Stop skirting around and making this harder on yourself.

Sorry but there has to be a bit more to this and why the avoidance of talking to the right people just screams your not really trying to do what you say. It's more of finding an excuse to do what you really want to do. That's to find a lawyer and prove some kind of point. A losing battle for all.

This reminds me of a parable about the guy who waited on God to save him...However, going to modify it for the HOA instead...

There was a person living in a HOA, they were invited to meetings to give the rules a survey. Their response was "No way, I've got other things to do today". A few months later as they were getting closer behind in dues, a letter arrived at their doorway. Their response "This is from the HOA, I will just throw it away". A year later and the HOA gets more serious and sends certified letter about a lien their way...Their response is "I don't accept certified mail and just will return it to the sender". Finally, the day comes when the foreclosure must be done. The HOA lawyer and court sends the sheriff's in...Their response "I didn't know my home could be taken from". The HOA's reply: WE HELD MEETINGS EACH MONTH, SENT YOU A CERTIFIED AND OTHERWISE, AND TOLD YOU WITH A LIEN A FORECLOSURE WILL COME. DID YOU THINK YOU COULD SIT IN YOUR HOUSE AND ACT ALL NUMB???"

It's a bit rough but you get the point...The HOA throws enough life rafts out that at some point it can only be you don't want your life saved and rather enjoy your situation of drowning...That's all I am saying...

That's a nice parable. But it doesn't exactly fit in this case.

This one might be a better fit:

***
There was a person living in an HOA. One day, they received a phone call from someone claiming to be a lawyer demanding a vaguely defined amount of money related to quarterly dues increasing. The debt could be settled right then and there with just a credit card number. The HOA member, wise to the ways of the world and suspicious, smells danger. What kind of lawyer calls asking for credit card details? Wouldn't I message of a debt come from the person the debt is owed to first? So rather than give the stranger the keys to the vault, the HOA member asks for documentation. Reluctantly, the stranger agrees to send documentation.

After the call the HOA member begins to consider. What if the stranger was being truthful? Increasing the automatic quarterly payment by $10 surely couldn't hurt. So he does, and goes on with his day.

Months go by and the call from the stranger is forgotten. An automatic payment or two have been sent. No documentation ever arrives. If asked about the call, the HOA member would have said it was probably a scam. One among the half dozen that had been attempted that year from various sweepstakes administrators, class action lawsuit facilitators, and exotic vacation timeshare proprietors.

More than a full year passes. The HOA member, while tending their garden, is approached by a young man. The young man hands a message to the HOA member that says "we'll see you in court."
***

Certified mail was never refused or ignored. No monthly statement was ever sent indicating a debt. No letters from the HOA, the management company, or the law firm were delivered. Either the life rafts all sprung leaks, or their were none to begin with.

If other people are in the same situation, then there's obviously something wrong. If you are being treated differently, then there's also something wrong.

Michael a prudent person would have contacted the Board or Management Company and requested information on the rate increase and if any past due amounts were owed instead of assuming the matter handled. Now not knowing how your HOA handles the accounting I'm going to presume a few things: Say you underpaid for two quarters that means late fees for two quarters, you increase your auto pay and the amount goes to the arrearages and late fees leaving you late with the current month so more late fees until it becomes a hole impossible to crawl out of. Now assuming the HOA sent no late notice which I frankly find hard to swallow, you still proved you knew of the increase because you adjusted the auto pay yet evidently washed your hands of the rest.

Michael:

Whoever entered the billing address should be liable for your failure to receive the billing notices.

Is there any possiblity that when you purchased the home ten years ago you filled out a form where you transposed street numbers? I bought a home last year and went through a period of getting the street number wrong from time to time.

It would seem that over the last ten years that at least some of the wrongly-addressed mail would have gone back to the sender. If the typo was obvious, they should have realized their error. I wonder if there is a file folder at your management company full of returned mail for you? It would also seem reasonable that if mail to the billing address is being returned and that the management company knows the residential address that they would attempt to contact you at the other address.

Your proposed settlement is reasonable. I hope all others involve can see it your way.

This is probably why you never got anything from the lawyer a year ago. They sent it to the non-existent address. But if they sent something to the wrong address it should have been returned to the law firm, giving them some notice that the address is wrong.

You gotta wonder just how stupid people can be if they keep getting mail returned to them for lack of a valid address.

Keep in mind his "reward" is maybe getting out of the legal costs, late fees, interest, and other expenses the HOA incurred bringing this suit. It does NOT forgive him of the back dues owed during this time period nor future paying at the new rate. So don't plan on getting out of all of the costs associated with this situation. The reality is increased dues difference is still owed. Which is a much better than being on the hook with a lien, lawyer fees, and penalties. Hopefully, they don't have access to your social security number to reflect this on your credit report. You do qualify for a free copy of your credit report because you suspect damage to your credit. So don't fall for any of those "Free credit check" company offers. It's free once a year to get a copy. Just make calls to experian or one of the other 2 credit reporting bureaus and get a copy. You will find out more information from there how to handle any issues. Good luck!