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EM2 (California)
Posts: 28
Posted:
I live in Los Angeles in a 12-unit building built in the mid 1980s. Each unit has its "own" rooftop deck area, but there are no formal wall dividers and everyone can walk the entire rooftop, and the HOA is responsible for maintaining the rooftop surface. There is a central stairway leading from the roof to a central courtyard. For many years most owners were elderly and didn't use their rooftops at all, but now a slew of new owners have moved in and would like to use their rooftops more but are running into an issue. The HOA president is extremely difficult and passive aggressive so it is hard to get information from him and many of us are trying to "learn on our own" as it were, what the rules and regulations really are. We have been told that post-Northridge, the rooftop deck must be kept with a 4' walkway along the outside walls so that if anyone needed to exit via the rooftop during the middle of the night in an emergency, they can do so without interference (though, in fact, there are exhaust vents built into the walls that people would stumble over if that were the case). If the decks had been built with personal walls in the first place (as most nearby buildings have) then the rooftop wouldn't be treated as a common walkway and this wouldn't be an issue, but since it was pre-northridge that wasn't thought of. In fact, I'm told neighbors used to put up little picket fences to mark their spaces, but they were told they had to remove that when this rule was enacted.

The building wasn't really built for this in mind so having that large a common egress pretty much eliminates the ability to use the rooftop as personal space because that takes up literally almost half of each person's area (the corner units have it the worst having to take 4' on both sides of their space).

I was just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this and if they ever found a solution? (like maybe making the rooftops no longer common area so it doesn't need to have a public walkway?)

Thanks for any advice...

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
If it is a HOA rule then they must provide you with a copy of it, if it is a zoning regulation then the place to start is with the Building Dept, call or visit and ask if such a rule exists and where you can get a copy of it.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Rooftop decks are one of those things that sound so cool until you start looking into the details.

Most roofing materials are not well suited to foot traffic and will fail prematurely if used as a walking surface. The structure holding the roof up is likely to be designed for a much lower load than the floor below it as you have no snow load to worry about. For example, your floors may have 2x6's on 16-inch centers and 3/4 inch plywood subfloor and your roof may be only 2x4's on 24" centers with 1/2" plywood on top.

Slope is required to drain water off a roof. Even a flat roof is not really flat. If there is too much slope to walk on the roof comfortably, you have to start building decks. This creates a whole new set of problems: mounting a new structure on the existing roof or removing part of the roof to connect to the structural elements below; piercing the roof membrane with nails, screws, or bolts; placing a load on the roof trusses that exceeds their design limits; altering drainage; preventing inspection and repair of the roof under the deck.

Even low walls or fences to separate one owner's space from another involves nailing through the roof membrane and voiding its warranty. Leaving everything to gravity is a bad idea as sooner or later the wind will blow things off the roof and onto innocent bystanders below.

My advice: on one of those rare evenings when there are no earthquakes, mud slides, wild fires, or smog alerts, drag some aluminum lawn chairs up to the roof and celebrate sunset by sipping a pitcher of margaritas. Later, have a designated driver take you and all the other stuff back downstairs and wait for the next calamity-free day to do it all over again. But attach nothing and leave nothing.
EM2 (California)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Hey Larry, thanks for the input. The roof was *built* for use (not that people used it much), so its not that its a regular roof which we are now wanting to put furniture on. Every 2 years it gets resealed and we have lots of rules about what can and cannot be on the roof for structural and water coating purposes, and every unit has a door that goes out to their section of the roof -- it definitely was built with the intention of people putting out grills and umbrellas and chairs and plants.

Our goal isn't to "add on" dividers (the kind of picket fences I was referring to were little plastic things about 6-9" high, more decorative than functional). What we mainly want to do is be able to put furniture out there, using the space as it was originally intended. But the 4' egress rule eats into so much of that space, it prevents us from really using he roof. The rooftop deck was a huge selling point for a lot of us, and we feel it devalues the property not to be able to use it. Other condos have proper walls and fences that divide their rooftop deck areas, so its clear that not every roof that is used has to have a public access way, so the question is, why does ours?

I will speak to the city, but I was hoping someone on this board might have had experience with this topic before...

Thanks again everyone!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
It sounds like the original builder missed the boat on his design. If he would have built block firewalls between each unit and extended them a few feet above the roof then each unit would have a semi-enclosed area on the roof. He did everything except build the necessary walls and retrofitting is likely outside the realm of possibility.

I would be very concerned about people grilling on what I assume to be an asphalt-based roof. I just sounds like a fire waiting to happen right above your home.

I would also be concerned about furniture left on the roof. One good gust of wind and that lovely umbrella table becomes a deadly object falling from the sky.

Like I said before, a roof top deck sounds cool but reality interferes.
EM2 (California)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Thanks, its not an asphault roof, it has a special coating and sealant that gets redone every couple of years. its true almost nobody has umbrellas, but it was actually contstructed really well for wind. I have lived through three years of Santa Ana's and not had a single plant knock over. Even my little 4" ones I expect to see rolling around after the winds, but they all stay level. Grills need to be propane with automatic shut offs if they do tip over, but the winds won't do that. Earthquake might though 8-)

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