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WilliamB16 (Illinois)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Here is my situation:

We collected a bunch of proxy votes that allowed us to vote at the annual meeting and election. The proxies were signed in, registered, and accepted with the Secretary before the meeting.

When the meeting started, a plant in the audience said that the proxies shouldn't count and are unfair (we had a large number of homeowners sign). Shouting went back and forth. I stated that we could look at the bylaws. The secretary suddenly agreed that they shouldn't count. The audience member then called to adjourn the meeting. The secretary counted the yes votes. I then told them they need to count the no votes (with the proxies). They didn't count the no's. The secretary then said meeting adjourned and the audience member and secretary left the meeting. Chaos then ensued.

My question is. Is this fraud? What recourse would we have? We are a non-profit corporation. Our bylaws clearly state that proxies are acceptable to any meeting. In fact the secretary registered a few proxies for their side.

Has anyone experienced craziness like this? The board would have lost the election.

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
William,

Yes. This is fraud.

I am always appalled by the willingness of people to break the rules and justify it in their own mind as being okay. I'm sure that your current Board and Secretary think that their actions were justified.

In most states you can recall a board member or all the board members with a petition having signatures from some number of the homeowners, usually 51%. I suggest you canvass your community to see if you can get the requisite signatures, recall the board, and then conduct a special meeting to elect new board members. You may want to retain counsel to certify the results of the recall and advise you on the proper protocol. It might be a good idea to have them attend the special meeting to maintain decorum.

You can also consider a lawsuit, but that route is very expensive in both time and money and may not turn out the way you want.

WilliamB16 (Illinois)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thanks I figured as much. In court, what damages could I sue for? I'm assuming it would not be worth my time. Is this something that a small claims court would hear?

I would sue for the difference in dues (I clearly stated to the homeowners I got to sign that I was going to cut the dues in half). I really would like to win to show a point to the board and some of the homeowners who agree with them. Laws are there for a purpose.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
What were Members trying to vote on, William?

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WilliamB16 on 06/04/2012 1:12 PM
In court, what damages could I sue for?


There are no real money damages here that you could be compensated for. A court won't make an award based on what might have been, only for actual loses.

What your lawsuit would be seeking is a court injunction removing the improperly elected board.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Willaim

As I see it your alternatives are:

1. Start a recall as in remove some or the entire BOD. Based on what you said, I might start with a recall of the Treasurer as you said he controlled the meeting.

2. Next election, be better prepared to be sure the meeting is conducted properly. This might could mean have an attorney present who knows the Bylaws.

One thing I saw in your post was a motion made from the floor. You might want to recheck this in your docs. Rarely can someone from the floor (as in not on the BOD) make motions during a BOD Meeting.

Hope this helps.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WilliamB16 on 06/04/2012 1:12 PM
Thanks I figured as much. In court, what damages could I sue for? I'm assuming it would not be worth my time. Is this something that a small claims court would hear?

I would sue for the difference in dues (I clearly stated to the homeowners I got to sign that I was going to cut the dues in half). I really would like to win to show a point to the board and some of the homeowners who agree with them. Laws are there for a purpose.

Check your state laws. In California matters related to common interest development election can be taken to small claims court.

You are not suing for damages. You are suing for violation of civil code and to invalidate the election. Check your CC&R and state civil codes regarding CID elections. Carefully list all the violations and make sure you have some witnesses who will show up in court.

This is an enforcement action and if you can file in small claims court, it shouldn't cost you that much and if you win then you should ask for court costs. There might be a penalty allowed by law, but don't count on this.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/04/2012 2:21 PM
Willaim

As I see it your alternatives are:

...One thing I saw in your post was a motion made from the floor. You might want to recheck this in your docs. Rarely can someone from the floor (as in not on the BOD) make motions during a BOD Meeting.

I believe the OP stated it was an annual meeting.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Peter

Are you implying that at the Annual Meeting, any motion, concerning anything can be made from the floor?

Not that it cannot in FL, but once again one must check their docs as they can vary widely.

While most do allow for nominations of candidates for election from the floor during the Annual Meeting, not all allow "for any" motion from the floor during the Annual Meeting or for that matter, any meeting.

Please do not quote me FL Whatevers as the original OP was from IL?, and as I say, docs can vary widely especially differing with the FL overly obtrusive "association" FL Whatevers.

I was once asked by a fellow BOD Member why I Seconded Motions and more then often end up voting against them. I replied that all sides deserved to be heard. I believe in open communication. I am no way trying to stifle communication but I believe things must be done properly or they can easily turn into a non-productive shouting match.

Been there. Seen that. Especially in an association meeting where a few of the "less understanding/less brighter" folks had a drink or three before the meeting......LOL

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
William:
You need to file a complaint with your state's attorney general as well as any county Office of Consumer Protection. This is corruption at it's worse.
Jeanne
WilliamB16 (Illinois)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thanks for the info guys. We are in Illinois if that helps. I called the Attorney Generals office and they said it is a civil matter. They don't deal with HOA complaints. At least that's what the person on the phone said. I'll try contacting someone at the county level and see if they can do anything.

To the other poster, this was at an annual meeting with voting for officers on the agenda. I have learned that there are people who have no concept of the term "fair".

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WilliamB16 on 06/05/2012 8:11 PM
Thanks for the info guys. We are in Illinois if that helps. I called the Attorney Generals office and they said it is a civil matter. They don't deal with HOA complaints. At least that's what the person on the phone said. I'll try contacting someone at the county level and see if they can do anything.

To the other poster, this was at an annual meeting with voting for officers on the agenda. I have learned that there are people who have no concept of the term "fair".


If it is a civil matter, see if CID elections are under the jurisdiction of small claims court. I know in California they tried to pass a bill to form an agency that took care of HOA matters, but it failed.

The attorney general is for corporation codes.

In California, we can complain to the state, but that's just an official complaint. The real action is making a motion in small claims court. Look under the laws that specifically govern CID. For us, it's the Davis-Stirling Act and that's what determines what is under the jurisdiction of small claims court.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
As a couple of others have suggested, recall the Board using the procedures (probably) outlined in your Bylaws. Or wait until the next annual election and vote out the current Board.

I'm still confused though. Your wrote about yes & no votes, which doesn't sound like an election of directors.

Your also wrote about election of officers being on the agenda, but generally officers are elected by directors.

Can you clarify?

I'm also puzzled that an audience member can "adjourn" the meeting. Without a second and vote?
WilliamB16 (Illinois)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Recall requires 75% I think. Way too high.

It was an election for directors (which in our case are also the officers - President, Secretary, Treasurer).

The "adjourn" motion was seconded by the secretary who then took it to vote. They counted the "yes" votes (to adjourn), but not the "no" votes. The "no" votes would have won as we had the majority with our proxy votes. The secretary then stated that the meeting was adjourned and walked out.

thanks.

Bill

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