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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
The CPA who figures our taxes told Our Vice President that gifts are considered taxable income. Many Board members have spend unreimbursed money for the Association. One Board member has spend over $1,000.00.

We are a non profit senior condo in NE.

Seems like I read on this forum one time that gifts or yard sale income needs to be over a certain percent of our annual income before it is taxable.

Looks like we might need to ask for receipts from everyone who has spend unreimbursed money. Some of our members also donate.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Since the person giving the gift is usually the one responsible to pay any taxes on the gift, I'm not sure why you want to kick this particular ant hill over but you can go here to see the IRS'S FAQ on Gift Tax.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html#1

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 05/26/2012 9:07 AM
The CPA who figures our taxes told Our Vice President that gifts are considered taxable income.

Bonnie,

Your CPA is right about gifts possibly being taxable income.

Remember that an HOA is able to treat most income in a special way. As long as the income (such as dues, fees, or assessments) is directly related to the function of the association, it is exempt from taxes.

Check out the IRS instructions for form 1120-H.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Just curious Bonnie what amount of money in total are we talking about?

How much per year over what timeframe?

Just what is your operating budget for the year?

And how did the CPA come to learn about this "income"? Is there a papertrail that person X donated $1,000 to the property?

There are CPAs that make sure the government gets every penny owed under every situation and then others who might not go out of their way to make an issue for the property. Sounds like you have the latter.

So if the property claims $1,000 in "gift" income the government will rake in what amount. The IRS loves people who go out of their way to give them as much as possible while others pay little if anything.

Your property is a good citizen and should be awared for paying every cent of your fair share. Just wish others were so patriotic...........
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/26/2012 2:18 PM
Just curious Bonnie what amount of money in total are we talking about?

How much per year over what timeframe?

Just what is your operating budget for the year?

And how did the CPA come to learn about this "income"? Is there a papertrail that person X donated $1,000 to the property?

There are CPAs that make sure the government gets every penny owed under every situation and then others who might not go out of their way to make an issue for the property. Sounds like you have the latter.

So if the property claims $1,000 in "gift" income the government will rake in what amount. The IRS loves people who go out of their way to give them as much as possible while others pay little if anything.

Your property is a good citizen and should be awared for paying every cent of your fair share. Just wish others were so patriotic...........

The large amount of donations started when a new owner moved in last summer. Our operating budget for this year is about $94,000.00. Next year it will be about $97,000.00.
I know of no paper trail at this time. Our Vice President was working with the CPA to get our current taxes paid. I don't know if the Vice President mentioned it, or if the CPA had questions.

The amount of gifts will more than likely amount to between $2,000.00 and $4,000.00.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A HOA is a Non Profit corporation most of the time. However that does NOT make it a non profit charitable corporation. Meaning you can't donate or raise funds by sales as a tax write off. That money is subjected to taxation as your CPA pointed out.

Former HOA President
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/26/2012 5:22 PM
That money is subjected to taxation as your CPA pointed out.


While most HOA's are not a charitable 501(c) organization, its income is still exempt from taxation so long as the money comes from a member of the association and goes to the usual and ordinary expenses of a homeowners' association (upkeep, taxes, insurance, etc.) HOA income is treated very differently by the IRS than income of other corporations.

The donations and unreimbursed expenses that benefit your HOA can be treated as fees and be free from taxation, as long as it is used for exempt purposes.

Use this link to check out the IRS instructions for form 1120-H.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
In general one shouldn't donate money to their HOA and consider it a charitable contribution. The HOA raises it's money from it's membership by dues and special assessments. (I won't discuss fines, liens/foreclosures as they are NOT money producers). I also advise NOT to have "Bake Sales/Yard sales" in the HOA to raise money. That type of money can throw a wrench into your record keeping as this CPA pointed out. Depending on how that money is ultimately used for. If it is NOT used in a defined way by the IRS, then it can subjected to taxation. That is all I am saying.

I am not saying a HOA can't have yard/bake sales and the such. Just realize when you do have that, the money isn't treated like your dues moneys collected. It's put into a different catagory in the books. So when you review those "Cooked books" as many would call them upon review, be very careful of what you assume as income and subject to taxation. Yard/bake sales or fines are NOT regular income. They are more like "bonuses".

Former HOA President
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
As a professional tax preparer, I couldn't help but notice some of the comments that have been made in this thread that are not entirely correct. Lets see if I can help clarify things:

1. Are "gifts" to the HOA taxable income? They could be. First, the IRS considers many things that individuals and organizations receive as taxable income: many things that most of us never bother to think about or report. For example, suppose your employer gives you a turkey for your Thanksgiving dinner. Is that taxable income? No. It is considered a "de minimus" gift and is not taxable. However, suppose instead your employer gives you a $25 gift card to use at your local supermarket. Is that taxable income? The IRS says it is. Even though it's about the same value as a turkey, the IRS considers it as income because it can be used the same as cash at the supermarket. What's worse, because it was given to you by your employer, it's considered part of your wages and is subject to FICA tax as well as income tax.

2. "If the income comes from the members of the HOA it is not taxable." That's not an entirely correct statement. Generally, that often turns out to be true, but what really matters is the nature of the income (not where it comes from) and whether or not the HOA even qualifies to file form 1120-H. To qualify to file form 1120-H an HOA must meet an income test and an expenditure test. Sixty percent of the HOA's income must be exempt function income. No more than forty percent can be non-exempt function income. Exempt function income is not taxable (provided the HOA qualifies to file form 1120-H) and is income from members in the form of regular assessments. Non-exempt function income (which is taxable) is any income that does not qualify as exempt function income. This includes income from outside sources (such as interest) and income from members that is for special use fees or something other than regular assessments. For example, a fee paid by a member to rent the clubhouse for private use would be considered non-exempt function income and is taxable, even though it comes from a member. Similarly, a "gift" or expense paid for by a member would be considered non-exempt function income and would be taxable (this is the position being taken by the CPA). Reading the instructions for form 1120-H does not give you the full detail. To learn more about the requirements for HOAs to qualify to use form 1120-H one must refer to 26CFR1.528.

3. "There's no paper trail." You can't guarantee that. What if the person providing the "gift" or paying for the HOA expense claims that amount on schedule A of his or her tax return as a charity deduction (which it is not) or as an employee business expense under miscellaneous deductions? There's your paper trail.

4. To think that some CPAs may be inclined to let a person "get away" with a little more that other CPAs when filing tax returns is bad thinking. All CPA's and all professional tax preparers must be registered with the IRS to be able to prepare tax returns for pay. Professional tax preparers who are not CPAs must, in addition, pass a competency examination required by the IRS. All professional preparers (including CPAs) are obligated to prepare returns that result in the (hopefully, lowest) tax that the taxpayer is legally obligated to pay. This means that the preparer cannot legally exclude income that the preparer knowingly must be reported. The IRS imposes penalties on preparers that knowingly fail to prepare legal returns. For example:

Understatement due to unreasonable positions. The penalty is the greater of $1,000 or 50% of the income derived by the tax return preparer with respect to the return or claim for refund.

Understatement due to willful or reckless conduct. The penalty is the greater of $5,000 or 50% of the income derived by the tax return preparer with respect to the return or claim for refund.

In addition, a preparer's or CPA's rights to practice before the IRS can be suspended or revoked, and a CPA's privilege to practice as a CPA can be suspended or revoked. This is in addition to any criminal penalties that could apply.

So, the CPA is only doing his job when he advises you that certain income is taxable. He can't legally advise you otherwise.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Bruce why is it then if you take your taxes to 10 different people you will get 10 different versions of properly prepared? Happens all the time.

The IRS can't even clearly maintain routine preparations of the same return.

What amazes me in regards to taxes some people use every loophole and device possible to pay nothing while more than honest people pay their fair share plus.

GE, Exxon/Mobil and many others pay ZERO but now we must add some $2,000 to $4,000 to the income of a not for profit home owners association.

Now in this case was there paperwork detailing these gifts? Or did the VP volunteer this information for some unknown reason?

I have a question if you were preparing these returns and the VP mentioned to you someone had gifted the property this amount with no paperwork would you then refile adding that income?

IMO sounds to me like we are going a little to far in the name of __________.

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 05/27/2012 1:54 PM
As a professional tax preparer, ... Lets see if I can help clarify things.


Bruce, thank you for your post. It fills in a number of details regarding HOAs and taxes.

There are only a few things that I would add. You are absolutely correct that section 528 of the tax code sets conditions that must be met in order for a homeowners' association to file a 1120-H form and have special treatment of income, including that 60% of income be exempt function income and 90% of expenditures be for ordinary maintenance activities. However, the vast majority of HOAs meet these conditions and are allowed to file this way.

The definition of "exempt function income" from treasury regulations section 1.528-9 is not definitive regarding whether a "gift" or unreimbursed expense paid for by a member qualifies as exempt function income for an HOA meeting the section 528 tests. The regulation says that "It is not necessary that the source of income be labeled as membership dues, fees, or assessments. What is important is that such income be derived from owners of residential units or residential lots in their capacity as owner-members rather than in some other capacity such as customers for services."

To resolve the question of whether a "gift" can be considered exempt from taxes, it may be instructional to apply the intention of the Tax Reform Act of 1976, which created section 528 of the tax code and the special treatment for HOAs. In that act congress decided not to tax revenues of an association of homeowners who act together as long as an individual homeowner acting alone would not be taxed on the same activity. So if a homeowner paid to fix up the clubhouse and declined reimbursement that act would not be taxable any more than the cost of fixing up one's own home would be taxable.

As Bruce points out, it is clear that income from outside sources (such as interest), income from members that is for special use, or a fee paid by a member to rent the clubhouse for private use does not qualify as "exempt function income".

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/27/2012 3:05 PM
Bruce why is it then if you take your taxes to 10 different people you will get 10 different versions of properly prepared? Happens all the time.

As with any profession, some are more knowledgeable or more experienced than others. I've learned that clients often do not offer information and only give answers to the questions asked by the preparer. Different preparers may ask different questions and will end up with different results.

The same is true of lawyers. A friend once told me that during a seminar on changes to the HOA law that was given by a group of lawyers (there were seven) a member of the audience asked the lawyers a question and received seven different answers.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 05/27/2012 3:10 PM
Posted By BruceF1 on 05/27/2012 1:54 PM
As a professional tax preparer, ... Lets see if I can help clarify things.


Bruce, thank you for your post. It fills in a number of details regarding HOAs and taxes.

Lawrence, thank you for providing additional information.

I think this is a good example to answer Jon's question. A CPA, unaware of the detail you provided, might be inclined to regard the HOA expenses paid for by a member as income, whereas another CPA armed with this insight, would not consider such a "donation" as income. Even if such a return is ultimately rejected by the IRS (the IRS is not necessarily consistent either, as opinions of tax examiners also vary) it is unlikely that the preparer would be penalized because the decision to prepare the return as he/she did is based on a reasonable position.

The tax code can get very complicated in certain situations.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/27/2012 3:05 PM
I have a question if you were preparing these returns and the VP mentioned to you someone had gifted the property this amount with no paperwork would you then refile adding that income?

As a preparer registered with the IRS I am legally obligated to report income that I am aware of when completing a return.

Actually, since I work for a CPA who is ultimately responsible for the returns I prepare, I would report what I believe to be income to him. He has over 30 years experience preparing taxes and is better equipped to decide how the situation is to be handled. Of course, he also has the same legal obligation.

There have been several instances when he has told me to "ask the client the question" when he suspects that a client may not have provided all his or her income information. If the client's response is in the negative, the response is documented and the CPA will say, "we asked."
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Without a lot of details. I owned my own business and used to take a specific related deduction (about $15K per year) that my business CPA was all for. A good personal friend was a CPA and when the discussion of thes specific deduction came up he said he would not feel comfortable using it were he my CPA.

What was I to do.............LOL

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
"The tax code can get very complicated in certain situations."

Boy now there is an understatement!

Actually though the entire system is set up so some people benefit from these very "complications" and others pay as much as humanly possible.

The system is also based on FEAR if you don't follow the rules that drain your income while others work the system and line their pockets.

Tim Geithner the Treasurey Secretary "forgot" to file and was appointed to a Cabinet post.
And no legal consequences at all. And Mr. Romney pays an effective tax rate of 14% on MILLIONS in income. Now that's fair............

But the system depends on those who follow the letter of the law and pay every cent faithfully without question because they need more than ever to throw away.

IMO the entire system from top to bottom is rotten. But that is the topic for another day..

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