💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BrianB11 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
We have a board member that mentions notices of violations regarding homeowners in open session. The remaining Board is looking at bringing up a motion to Censure that board member. I have a number of questions. I have looked at the Davis-Stirling site.

Is this an agenda item? If yes, is it an item for Executive Session or the Open Meeting?

If this is in Executive Session, will the minutes released indicate that "Board Member (name of board member) was censured for (reason of censure)" or just mentioned that "A board member was censured for (reason of censure)".

If this is handled just in Executive Session, how will other homeowners ever know who this person is and maybe not vote for them next time if they know how bad they are?

I know that the homeowners should attend the meetings, but we get only 5 of 50 that ever show up.

Thank you for your help.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Why is it wrong to truthfully state that the association is taking action against certain members?

As I said elsewhere today, secret accusations, secret proceedings, and secret penalties are more suited to Soviet-era Balkan states than to America.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Brian,

Davis-Stirling.com has info if you wish to Censure a Board Member.

Typically, executive Sessions are entered into from an open meeting. The reason for the executive session is to be included in the open meeting minutes. When Executive sessions end, the Board returns to the open meeting to take a vote on any action discussed in executive session.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Brian

I say initial complaints, issues, warnings, etc. can and should be discussed in Executive Session (as in private) and hopefully resolved in private.

That said, once it cannot be resolved in private and fines/legal action commence, then all should/can be publically made aware of such.

Do not hide things. The more you hide, the more open you will not be trusted.
BrianB11 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I certainly want to keep it as open as possible and in the minutes so when they are distributed to the members, they see the action and hopefully do not vote for him in the future. I am not sure how this gets addressed in California.

If I had my way, it would be an agenda item in the open meeting, voted on and the minutes would reflect that "The Board voted to censure (name of party) for (reason).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Brian

I think you might have missed my point. Just because "you' want to censure "him" means little.

Until the "majority" of the BOD also wants to, it should be kept in private.

Now once the majorty wants to, I say hang the mother in public.

I also say if the majority does not want to, then maybe it is time for you to depart the scene.

Hope this helps.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB11 on 05/16/2012 10:51 AM
We have a board member that mentions notices of violations regarding homeowners in open session. The remaining Board is looking at bringing up a motion to Censure that board member. I have a number of questions. I have looked at the Davis-Stirling site.

Is this an agenda item? If yes, is it an item for Executive Session or the Open Meeting?

If this is in Executive Session, will the minutes released indicate that "Board Member (name of board member) was censured for (reason of censure)" or just mentioned that "A board member was censured for (reason of censure)".

If this is handled just in Executive Session, how will other homeowners ever know who this person is and maybe not vote for them next time if they know how bad they are?

I know that the homeowners should attend the meetings, but we get only 5 of 50 that ever show up.

Thank you for your help.

Does your HOA have an attorney?

I think you need to impress upon all directors the reason violation hearings are held in closed (executive sessions).

So I would also ask the attorney to explain this reason and then lead into a discussion about the censure and a vote to censure or not. Votes should include a record of which director voted for what action. I see no reason to name the person if the person stops doing this action.

If the person continues to mention violations in a way that opens the board to possible lawsuits for slander or defamation, then the president or another director should give a warning as soon as it happens again and this should be included in the minutes with the name of the director.

At that point, it might fall under willful misconduct.

In the case that the majority vote against censure, should there be a charge of defamation against the board (because the board allowed this action to continue), those board directors who made an effort to stop these discussions about violations as evidenced by votes or requests during meetings to stop discussions about specific people and associated violations in open meetings could argue they are not legally liable because of their efforts to stop these actions. Check Robert's Rules of Order for this.

As someone who was charged with a violation, taken to the board's kangaroo court and then to small claims court (where the violation and fines were dismissed), we are pressing defamation in mediation because the hearing (which we did not attend) was held a few yards away from the public sidewalk and in the open (in front of the mailboxes). In addition, the charge was stated as fact in published board notes before there was even a motion for a hearing. So libel and slander.

An attorney can explain why it is always better to have hearings in private executive sessions. However, if the violation results in a small claims court claim, once filed that becomes public information. Disclosure of public information in an open meeting should not be a problem if the information remains factual as there is no expectation of privacy. This is my opinion. I am not an attorney. I am a fan of the Law & Order series.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB11 on 05/16/2012 10:51 AM
We have a board member that mentions notices of violations regarding homeowners in open session. The remaining Board is looking at bringing up a motion to Censure that board member. I have a number of questions. I have looked at the Davis-Stirling site.

Is this an agenda item? If yes, is it an item for Executive Session or the Open Meeting?

If this is in Executive Session, will the minutes released indicate that "Board Member (name of board member) was censured for (reason of censure)" or just mentioned that "A board member was censured for (reason of censure)".

If this is handled just in Executive Session, how will other homeowners ever know who this person is and maybe not vote for them next time if they know how bad they are?

I know that the homeowners should attend the meetings, but we get only 5 of 50 that ever show up.

Thank you for your help.

Does your HOA have an attorney?

I think you need to impress upon all directors the reason violation hearings are held in closed (executive sessions).

So I would also ask the attorney to explain this reason and then lead into a discussion about the censure and a vote to censure or not. Votes should include a record of which director voted for what action. I see no reason to name the person if the person stops doing this action.

If the person continues to mention violations in a way that opens the board to possible lawsuits for slander or defamation, then the president or another director should give a warning as soon as it happens again and this should be included in the minutes with the name of the director.

At that point, it might fall under willful misconduct.

In the case that the majority vote against censure, should there be a charge of defamation against the board (because the board allowed this action to continue), those board directors who made an effort to stop these discussions about violations as evidenced by votes or requests during meetings to stop discussions about specific people and associated violations in open meetings could argue they are not legally liable because of their efforts to stop these actions. Check Robert's Rules of Order for this.

As someone who was charged with a violation, taken to the board's kangaroo court and then to small claims court (where the violation and fines were dismissed), we are pressing defamation in mediation because the hearing (which we did not attend) was held a few yards away from the public sidewalk and in the open (in front of the mailboxes). In addition, the charge was stated as fact in published board notes before there was even a motion for a hearing. So libel and slander.

An attorney can explain why it is always better to have hearings in private executive sessions. However, if the violation results in a small claims court claim, once filed that becomes public information. Disclosure of public information in an open meeting should not be a problem if the information remains factual as there is no expectation of privacy. This is my opinion. I am not an attorney. I am a fan of the Law & Order series.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here