RE many residents in our subdivision have home based business. HOA is filing charges on me only

Started by MaryF11 • 8 replies • 2749 views

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MaryF11 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

RE many residents in our subdivision have home based business. HOA is filing charges on me only

Our HOA rules were written in 1978 before most home computers were even available. Many people in our subdivision now in 2012 are working at home, professionals, blue collar, shops, makeup, gift baskets, and sales just for starters. (these rules are 35 years old and will perpetually renew every 10 years)

We live in a very rural area and I am raising and selling chickens!

I want to be "nullified or exempt" from these rules or amke ammendments to the HOA rules to update them.

My website was singled out and I got letter of cease and desist working at home. The board president's wife is selling gift baskets form her home and has wholesale and retail website. There are 16 or more of my neighbors working at home.

I have retained an attorney to write a response letter and am going to the HOA meeting with proof of other businesses in neighborhood. How can I effectly challenge this? I want to keep my partime hobby income as its unfair to be singled out. All respsonses appreciated.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Well, since you hired an attorney, my advice would be to sit back and let him do his job.

If you search here on the boards, you can find several discussions about home based businesses, and what people thought when they wrote the rules, which ones might be okay, why others are not, etc.. As you point out, the rules where written before the concept of running a million dollar business could be done from a server in your basement became possible. I can see the difference between running a website as a business, running Avon as a business, running chickens as a business, and running a day care as a business, all out of a home. I can also see that to be proper, an HOA should clearly spell out what businesses are acceptable to be run from the home, and which are not, in their regulations. Most do not do that, sounds like yours doesn't either. They just say "no businesses" and wink/ignore the ones they like.

But, the bottom line for me is you hired an expert, let him do his job.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Is the problem that you are running a business or that you are raising chickens on your property?

What do your CC&R's say about chickens, livestock, or other animals? Do your CC&R's permit your property to be used for commercial agriculture?

I see a huge difference between a home-based business that operates entirely inside the structure and one that has critters outside the house.

Chickens and other poultry are not without their health risks. I have read that the reason so many flu viruses originate in Asia is that people there often live in close proximity to chickens. That is why we have chicken pox and bird flu. I would not want to live next door to you in a subdivision.

MaryF11 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BrianB on 05/16/2012 9:17 AM
Well, since you hired an attorney, my advice would be to sit back and let him do his job.

If you search here on the boards, you can find several discussions about home based businesses, and what people thought when they wrote the rules, which ones might be okay, why others are not, etc.. As you point out, the rules where written before the concept of running a million dollar business could be done from a server in your basement became possible. I can see the difference between running a website as a business, running Avon as a business, running chickens as a business, and running a day care as a business, all out of a home. I can also see that to be proper, an HOA should clearly spell out what businesses are acceptable to be run from the home, and which are not, in their regulations. Most do not do that, sounds like yours doesn't either. They just say "no businesses" and wink/ignore the ones they like.

But, the bottom line for me is you hired an expert, let him do his job.

Times have changed and from 1978 to 2012 its really a different world. You are right. Many million dollar businesses are run from the home office. My "chicken business" is in an agricultrual area. The pullets or hens are being sold as a side to my "educational and informative" information on my website on how to raise chickens. So we do not raise or sell eggs, hatch chickens or even have roosters as we are not breeders.

Some of our neighbors are raising goats and are not in the FFA for a project. My chickens are not an agricultural product, rather a few "pet" chickens are sold for backyard use to people close to our ranch. I will let the atty formulate the concepts here. the word on my website that offends have been removed. Thanks for your insights.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Mary,

You did not explain why your home business was sent the cease and desist letter.
Does your business create a lot of traffic in the area (excess deliveries, customers, clients, etc.)? There has to be more to it than a website.

When you attend the meeting I would strongly recommend keeping emotions out of any conversations. Matter of fact, you may want to bring your attorney along with you.

As others have said, you have gone through the expense of hiring an attorney. Therefore, heed their advice as they have more information on this issue than we do.

Good Luck,

Tim

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

food for thought:

if you are in violation of your restrictive covenants -> YOU ARE IN VIOLATION

if other people are also in violation -> YOU ARE STILL IN VIOLATION

should the BOD act against all violators of the same offence ? -> YES

will your actions force them to do so ? -> PROBABLY YES

will this let you off the hook ? -> NOPE

will many many people be unhappy ? -> YEP (except for BOTH attorneys - they will get paid 'win-or-loose')

IMO: if you sell a chicken you ARE in business ..... are pet chickens permitted ?!

MaryF11 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/16/2012 12:41 PM
Mary,

You did not explain why your home business was sent the cease and desist letter.
Does your business create a lot of traffic in the area (excess deliveries, customers, clients, etc.)? There has to be more to it than a website.

When you attend the meeting I would strongly recommend keeping emotions out of any conversations. Matter of fact, you may want to bring your attorney along with you.

As others have said, you have gone through the expense of hiring an attorney. Therefore, heed their advice as they have more information on this issue than we do.

Good Luck,

Tim

Good point, as a matter of fact. My neighbors in several directions have written me support letters stating that my chickens are not a problem, no smell noise or parking issues... My property is 5 acres from the street DOWN A GRAVEL PATHWAY and my home and coop is behind many trees, my closest neighbor is 3 ACRES AWAY!

I get about 10 customers PER MONTH I post on Craigs list every 2 days and someone in my neighborhood is upset. We are a Manditory membership per HOA membership per the Home deed we signed.

My real fault? My website brags that I am a larger company than I really am.. (I took that off) and my website reflects that I sell non commercial socialized "pet chickens"

The attorney will write a letter soon. There is a HOA meeting next week to address all home based businesses in the area because of my request to the board. I do not know if letter will be presented there or after we see what actions the board will take. I know for a fact the HOA is low on funds and has only 21 k... not likely this will see trial ... they may have to shut down all businesses or ammend the HOA restrictions.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mary

Usually one of the litmus tests is does the home based business result in traffic coming and going? If yes, then it is banned.

Also many have restrictions on types of animals like not farm animals. You can call a chicken a pet if you wish, but to me it is a farm animal.

You can change all the ads/web sites you want, but the information was there and it sounds like this is one of the things that got the issue started.

Blaming others for the same mistakes one makes, does not make your mistakes correct.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I say as long as you do NOT display a sign of business or what is called "Hanging a shingle out" then you should be okay. Once you advertise openly in the front yard, then you violate the rules. The purpose of this rule was to prevent lawyers, doctors, or other similar businesses from making offices in the HOA. Home businesses like Avon or homemade craft businesses don't fall under this gray area.

Bottom line, just don't advertise on your front doorstep...

Former HOA President

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