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RonM4 (Maryland)
Posts: 26
Posted:
I live in Maryland was recently cited by my HOA for having dirty vinyl siding. I will admit that if you look at it from the correct angle you will see some dirt on one side of my house….. only on that one side. I have even had others look and they rarely notice it until I point it out. The homes on either side of me have dark mold growing on theirs yet they were not cited. I asked to review the violation records and was informed that the BOD said that this was privileged information and therefore I cannot view it. I’ve had my “go rounds” with the BOD in the past, even called out by name at a recent meeting by their lawyer trying to intimate me, and feel that this is selective enforcement and a form of retaliation. Do I have a right to review the violation records? Can they claim it is privileged information therefore it is a private matter?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Generally speaking no, you are not entitled to see other homeowner's violation notices. Would you want them to be able to see yours?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Why not just have the home power washed your place will look better and this case would be closed... End of story.

And I agree you don't have the right to see the violations of other home owners.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
While I tend to agree that violations are typically between the board and the owner/violator, I dislike the concept of calling everything "privileged". Privilege is reserved for those items between a legal counselor and their clients that relate to the matter of a lawsuit, or to things with a reasonable potential of a lawsuit. Just because you discuss something with a lawyer doesn't make it privileged.

So, while it's possible that some of this information is privileged, I doubt that much of it is.

That said, it's just a pet peeve of mine. I disklike tossing that word out like it solves everything, it doesn't. The board should have told you "We do not disclose that information because it is typically private, between individual owners and the board."

If you feel you are incorrectly assessed, follow your appeal process (it's in your rules/by-laws), and rather than focus on what might have happened in the past, keep your focus on on the condition of your home compared to others currently documentable. Get out there, take pictures, and document the incorrect assessment of your condition, or unfair treatment of your home, and present that as well, with a call for equal enforcement and action. You won't have much luck with "well, two years ago X happened", but you might gain traction with "This is my home. This is Bob's. I fully expect equal action to be taken against him, as you can see, his is three color steps darker than mine (or, seven times larger, etc.).

Also, I think you meant intimidate. I would hate to see a lawyer try to intimate you in a public meeting.
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Fortunately in Florida we have a rigth to see ALL documentation with just a few exceptions and violation notices is not one of the exceptions.

Check your state laws before accepting that you cannot ask to review assn. documents.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
I agree with Jay. Check with the Maryland Office of Consumer Protection and ask if violations are privileged documents. I don't think they are.
Jeanne
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
We hear this all the time."Selective Enforcement". It gets old. Neighbors tell neighbors that they did not receive violation letters, when they actually did,.. Many of the residents never will sign for their certified mail, nor will they acknowledge any of the letters. Also, in Virginia, you have to enforce using the rules outlined in the guidelines as well as the the Virginia Property Association act. Sometimes, it takes months to resolve issue. Other residents are not privy to violations reports in Virginia. It seems to be human nature to point out the other problems with other neighbors. We have found that many of the residents tend to try to clean siding themselves, when a professional knows what they are doing and can deal with it more effectively.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Any owner in an HOA is in a contractual relationship with not only the HOA but all other owners. As a party to a contract, an owner should have the right to know whether others are performing as agreed. Unless explicitly prohibited by statute, all records of the association should be open to all owners.

When the HOA issues notices of violation, the association is acting as a judicial body. American public policy requires openness in judicial proceedings and the records thereof. Secret charges, secret proceedings, and secret penalties are all offensive to public policy and more fitting to a Soviet-era Balkan state than to America.

The other side of the coin, however, is that like any police agency the HOA has the discretion as to what violations to cite and what to ignore. Unless there is a clear abuse of power, an individual owner who is in violation of the contractually agreed upon rules has no defense in claiming that he has been singled out. The association gets to pick and choose what battles it will fight. Most CC&R's permit the owners to bring their own private action in court against other owners who are in violation and this is the remedy for one who feels that he is being picked upon.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
I can only speak for California. The meeting minutes should list the violations.

Executive/closed sessions should list in general terms when there is a violation being discussed, but not disclose who the person is being disciplined.

For an example of this, you might check with how your local legislating body does it. For instance, the community college school board lists things discussion item and code it pertains to. So say something like Article V, section 1 (a). Something like that.

What you need to review is your state disclosure laws also known as Sunshine laws.

On a federal level, it's called the Freedom of Information Act. All states have similar acts.

In California the Brown Act is for public government bodies (like school boards) while the Davis Stirling Act is for condos.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
For Maryland it is the 1970 Public Information Act, but there should be one for HOAs or Common Interest Developments.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Virginia follows the rules as laid out by JM10 in California. These matters are discussed in executive/closed sessions and the minutes only list in general terms when there is a violation being discussed, but does not disclose who is being disciplined. Nor are we allowed to disclose this to other members.
RonM4 (Maryland)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Thank you for all the input. As I stated, I was cited by the BOD for having dirty siding that in my opinion is barely noticeable. Neighbors on either side of me have very dirty siding yet were not cited. They showed me their violation letters and one was cited for the need to paint the mail box post and the other to replace a shutter. I feel, as a member of the HOA, I have a right to know about violations that have the potential of devaluing my investment. I feel the BOD has a fiduciary responsibility to fairly treat all members equally. I feel that the BOD has “targeted” me because I have caused a stir in the community about some unpopular decisions that they have made. On a side note: the BOARD has published all the names and addresses of the residents in the community on the HOA website… but have “conveniently” omitted the names and address of those on the Board yet they feel violations are “privileged” information.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Posting all the names on the website is IMO... not a wise move.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Posting all the names on the website is IMO... not a wise move.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 05/16/2012 9:42 AM
Virginia follows the rules as laid out by JM10 in California. These matters are discussed in executive/closed sessions and the minutes only list in general terms when there is a violation being discussed, but does not disclose who is being disciplined. Nor are we allowed to disclose this to other members.

Correct. An example of the open meeting minutes might be:

Board entered into executive session at hh:mm to discuss enforcement of alleged violation of Article xx section yy of the [document].

Board returned from executive session at hh:mm

Motion is made that the violation does exist and the following enforcement process will be implemented: xxxxxx. Motion is seconded. Motion Passed/Failed by a vote of x yea to x nay.
[Officer] will take action on this.

next item on the agenda.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonM4 on 05/16/2012 10:46 AM
Thank you for all the input. As I stated, I was cited by the BOD for having dirty siding that in my opinion is barely noticeable. Neighbors on either side of me have very dirty siding yet were not cited. They showed me their violation letters and one was cited for the need to paint the mail box post and the other to replace a shutter. I feel, as a member of the HOA, I have a right to know about violations that have the potential of devaluing my investment. I feel the BOD has a fiduciary responsibility to fairly treat all members equally. I feel that the BOD has “targeted” me because I have caused a stir in the community about some unpopular decisions that they have made. On a side note: the BOARD has published all the names and addresses of the residents in the community on the HOA website… but have “conveniently” omitted the names and address of those on the Board yet they feel violations are “privileged” information.

Ron with all due respect the system does not operate according to how YOU feel things should or will be handled. There are laws and rules and documents that set these standards. Now can you be the target of "special" enforcement certainly but as you are dealing with human beings and you have suggested your relationship is strained at best do you really find this surprising? Many times those not having an understanding of the system begin to determine their own view of right, wrong and how things should be. "devaluing my investment" "Fiduciary duty" all might sound like they hold water but in reality they do not.

If you wan to now make a federal issue out of this then don't address the violation. Play right into the hand of hose who might be targeting you. Give them cause to fine you. hen you can hire a lawyer fight this in court and explain o the judge how you think things should be. Won't cost the Board members a nickel will cost you a lot more than the cost of washing your siding. Whether you notice it or not. Again, your judgement is NOT the deciding factor.

He who turns and walks away lives to fight another day. Pick the fights you might win. Pick the fights you need to win. Pick the fights you can win.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/16/2012 1:07 PM
Posted By MikeS1 on 05/16/2012 9:42 AM
Virginia follows the rules as laid out by JM10 in California. These matters are discussed in executive/closed sessions and the minutes only list in general terms when there is a violation being discussed, but does not disclose who is being disciplined. Nor are we allowed to disclose this to other members.


Correct. An example of the open meeting minutes might be:

Board entered into executive session at hh:mm to discuss enforcement of alleged violation of Article xx section yy of the [document].

Board returned from executive session at hh:mm

Motion is made that the violation does exist and the following enforcement process will be implemented: xxxxxx. Motion is seconded. Motion Passed/Failed by a vote of x yea to x nay.
[Officer] will take action on this.

next item on the agenda.

The only thing I would add to that is it should list what board members voted for what. This is for reasons of legal liability. For instance, if a board member voted against something that was illegal, then that person would not be held liable should legal actions be taken later. Board members are generally protected against legal actions against them as individuals for things they did as board members, however, if the court finds negligence or willful misconduct, then they lose that shield.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 05/16/2012 11:53 AM
Posting all the names on the website is IMO... not a wise move.

If the website/blog is private (only open to members), then that would probably be in line with the requirement for a membership directory.

In California, this is a requirement although there is a debate about what exactly is a mailing address (e.g. should that include email). The CC&R for the condo association we belong to specifically mentions that the phone numbers should be included. Members can opt out. It also mentions that the contact info for the secretary should be prominently displayed in a common area.

If you've been following my complaints (we are going into mediation on Friday), then you could probably guess that we were given a membership list without the phone numbers and we didn't know who the secretary was until our last court date (first Friday of this month).

I don't know the parameters for the website. The names of the officers and the official address for legal correspondence should be a matter of public information (at least in California) and for that reason, would be more reasonable to list on a public site. That appears to be the opposite of what is happening here and, if so, is suspicious conduct.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
JM10 - Keep us in the loop. We're interested in reading the last chapter in this. Good luck.

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