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DawnB (West Virginia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Is it the boards responsibility to make sure that cars are not broken into in this community? Isn't that why there's a neighborhood watch?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By DawnB on 01/30/2007 11:28 AM
Is it the boards responsibility to make sure that cars are not broken into in this community? Isn't that why there's a neighborhood watch?


No, it is not the Board's responsibility. It is the owner who is responsible for their car and if this happens they should call the police and their insurance company.
DawnB (West Virginia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Your opinion. What is the board's responsibilty?
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Neighborhood watch is made up of RESIDENTS that VOLUNTEER and coordinate with their local PD. They have monthly meetings and form a kind of network to pass information along and provide signs to post thru-out your neighborhood. Breaking and entering is a police matter. Would you call the BOD president if someone was breaking into your house? If you have a safety patrol dept. they can keep an eye on things but most do not have the authority that police officers have and it does not make them responsible for damages done to your property.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Dawn, the Board is responsible for governing the association. Following are examples of powers and duties, provided by one set of By-laws, necessary for the administration of the affairs of the Association:

a) administer and enforce the covenants, conditions, restrictions, easements, uses, limitations, obligations and all other provisions as set forth in the Nonprofit Corporation Act, the Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act, the Declaration, these Bylaws, and the Rules and Regulations;
b) procure and maintain insurance coverage as may be required to comply with the Declaration and additional insurance which the Board deems prudent after evaluating cost versus risk, insurance may include liability, property, fidelity, and broad Directors' and Officers’ insurance which covers the Association, current and former Directors and Officers, Management Company, Agents, Committee members and other persons performing for the Association;
c) adopt and publish rules and regulations governing the use of the Lots, the Common Areas, the Common Interest Community, or any portion thereof, and any facilities thereon and the personal conduct of the Members and their guests thereon, and to establish penalties for the infraction thereof;
d) enter into, make, perform or enforce contracts, licenses, leases and agreements of every kind and description. Acquire, hold, encumber and convey in the name of the Association any right, title or interest to real or personal property, provided, however, that Common Areas may be conveyed or subjected to a security interest upon the consent of Members to which at least eighty percent of the votes in the Association are allocated and in accordance with C.R.S. § 38-33.3-312;
e) provide for maintenance, repair and/or reconstruction of the Common Elements, other parcels of real property, and Improvements, as more fully provided in the Declaration;
f) cause to be kept a complete set of records of all its acts and corporate affairs, financial records shall be maintained in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices, records shall be reasonably available for copying and examination by an Owner or such Owner’s authorized agent during working hours upon requesting specific records and the purpose of the request;
g) as more fully provided in the Declaration, to:
1) determine the amount of the annual assessment against each Lot, from time to time, in accordance with the Association operating and reserve budgets, and revise the amount of the annual assessment when necessary if such budget is rejected by the Owners;
2) collect all assessments as levied by the Board of Directors from the Owners as are authorized in the Declaration and foreclose the lien against any Lot for which assessments are not paid within one hundred eighty (180) days after the due date, or bring an action at law against the Owner personally obligated to pay the same;
3) impose late charges and interest for late payment of assessments, recover reasonable attorney fees and other costs for collection of assessments and other actions to enforce the power of the Association, and, after Notice and Hearing, levy reasonable Individual Assessments and Fines for violations of the Declaration, Bylaws, and Rules and Regulations of the Association in accordance with the Declaration;
h) cause to be issued at a reasonable charge, upon demand by any Owner, a Certificate of Status of Assessment, which shall be conclusive evidence of such payment as to all persons who rely thereon in good faith, and the Certificate of Status of Assessment shall include a request, that upon title transfer, to provide a copy of the new deed and a copy of the Seller’s disclosure statement which has been signed by the Buyer as specified in statute 38-35.7-102(1)(b);
(i) elect a Member to the Board to fill a vacancy on the Board, and to declare an office of the Board to be vacant in the event the Member holding that office is absent from two meetings of the Board in any twelve month period;
j) hire and terminate a managing agent or other contractors as they deem necessary, and to prescribe their duties. All of the powers and duties granted to the Board hereunder may be delegated to a managing agent; provided however that such delegation shall not relieve the Board of Directors of responsibility thereof;
k) supervise all officers, agents and employees of the Association, and see that their duties are properly performed;
l) provide for Architectural Design Review and approval of all modifications within The Planned community and for the enforcement of restrictions as set forth in the Declaration and Rules and Regulations;
m) enter upon a Lot when necessary without being guilty of trespass in the performance of its duties as outlined in the Declaration;
n) institute, defend, or intervene in litigation or administrative proceedings in its own name on behalf of itself or an Owner on matters affecting The Properties;
o) borrow money, providing such security as is necessary, providing that such borrowing has the prior written approval of Members who are entitled to cast at least sixty seven percent of the votes in the Association;
p) exercise any other powers conferred by the Declaration, Articles or Bylaws; and
q) exercise all other powers necessary for the proper governing and operation of the Association.

The full extent of these powers shall not be restricted by implication, nor shall any enumeration or description of powers, obligations, duties or procedures, or any other provision of the Declaration, Articles, Bylaws, Rules and Regulations or other applicable documents, limit or restrict the full extent of the powers unless expressly and specifically identified as such a restriction or limitation.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By DawnB on 01/30/2007 11:28 AM

Is it the boards responsibility to make sure that cars are not broken into in this community? Isn't that why there's a neighborhood watch?


As others have posted, no, it's not the board's (or the HOA's) responsibility to make sure that cars are not broken into in the community.

It's no different than if the car was parked in a non-covenanted community or in a business district.

Roger explained the responsibilities well.


Ron
SC
PatrickH (California)
Posts: 204
Posted:
Dawn,

It's not the board's responsibility to make sure that cars or homes aren't broken into. Unless each Board member volunteered to watch a street 24 hours per day, there's no way that they can accomplish it.

If crime is running rampant in your neighborhood, then the Board should be looking at ideas to increase security, such as the neighborhhod watch you mentioned. If your streets are public, they can use crime statistics to request more frequent police patrols. If the streets are private, they should consider raising the dues to hire a private security patrol or increase the amount of patrols if you already have such a service.

Good luck
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
It's interesting that 3-4 times a year a Johnny-come-lately pops up at the Board Meeting and says "We need a neighborhood watch program". "OK", says the Board, who wants to volunteer? .. and just watch the room empty out in a matter of a few seconds. It's a lot of work to do this. In Northern VA, you have to have all your participants take a very long class through the police dept. It's sad that you just can't get the volunteers.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Mike:

Great post, that happens at least once a year with us, it is a great idea, but ideas need people.

And no the board is not responsible for cars getting broken into. Although I would be concerned about the crime why is it my responsibility as a board member to keep your stuff from getting stolen. Park your car in a garage or get a security system on it.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
I will disagree. It is the board's responsibility to prevent crime. They are also responsible for preventing graffiti, mowing lawns, preventing mail fraud, spamming, and making sure newspapers are collected from the drive of homeowners who are out of town. The board should also be enforcing the curfew on teens, making sure children under 16 do their chores, or assigning chores to children, and teaching children to abstain from sex, drugs, and loud music. As a minor branch of an elected socialist government, the board is responsible for all decisions that affect everyone around them. Should you stub your toe on a coffee table in the dark, it is their fault your home wasn't better lit as well. The board is no different than a cigarette company who forces people to smoke their product and get cancer, or a gun maker who forces someone to buy a weapon, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. It's the board's fault if a daughter get's knocked up by the neighbor boy too, and if your ex spouse refuses to pay child support, it's their fault too. Nothing in America is my fault anymore, personal responsibility has officially surrendered to the nanny state.

So yup, blame the board. but don't forget to volunteer to serve next year!
KrystalA (Iowa)
Posts: 60
Posted:
Posted By BrianB on 01/30/2007 3:13 PM

I will disagree. It is the board's responsibility to prevent crime. They are also responsible for preventing graffiti, mowing lawns, preventing mail fraud, spamming, and making sure newspapers are collected from the drive of homeowners who are out of town. The board should also be enforcing the curfew on teens, making sure children under 16 do their chores, or assigning chores to children, and teaching children to abstain from sex, drugs, and loud music. As a minor branch of an elected socialist government, the board is responsible for all decisions that affect everyone around them. Should you stub your toe on a coffee table in the dark, it is their fault your home wasn't better lit as well. The board is no different than a cigarette company who forces people to smoke their product and get cancer, or a gun maker who forces someone to buy a weapon, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. It's the board's fault if a daughter get's knocked up by the neighbor boy too, and if your ex spouse refuses to pay child support, it's their fault too. Nothing in America is my fault anymore, personal responsibility has officially surrendered to the nanny state.

So yup, blame the board. but don't forget to volunteer to serve next year!


Thanks for the good after work laugh

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
you are very welcome. always happy to stir up a little...
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Posted By BrianB on 01/30/2007 3:13 PM

I will disagree. It is the board's responsibility to prevent crime. They are also responsible for preventing graffiti, mowing lawns, preventing mail fraud, spamming, and making sure newspapers are collected from the drive of homeowners who are out of town. The board should also be enforcing the curfew on teens, making sure children under 16 do their chores, or assigning chores to children, and teaching children to abstain from sex, drugs, and loud music. As a minor branch of an elected socialist government, the board is responsible for all decisions that affect everyone around them. Should you stub your toe on a coffee table in the dark, it is their fault your home wasn't better lit as well. The board is no different than a cigarette company who forces people to smoke their product and get cancer, or a gun maker who forces someone to buy a weapon, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. It's the board's fault if a daughter get's knocked up by the neighbor boy too, and if your ex spouse refuses to pay child support, it's their fault too. Nothing in America is my fault anymore, personal responsibility has officially surrendered to the nanny state.

So yup, blame the board. but don't forget to volunteer to serve next year!


Brian, someone emailed me this but it seems to fit with your post on HOA rules regarding children.

ASSOCIATION RULES REGARDING CHILDREN:
Homeowners spend the first two years of a child's life teaching them to walk and talk and then ask the Board to pass rules telling them to sit down and shut up.

Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your own children. The Association's rules do not address such issues.

Some homeowners believe that the main purpose of holding children's parties in the clubhouse is to remind themselves' that there are children more awful than their own.

Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you should not have said. For this reason most owners have stopped bringing their children to Board meetings.

Parents of teenagers now know why some animals eat their young. The Board discourages such activities in the common areas.

Many owners have childproofed their homes but report that their children still get in. The Board does not have a solution to this problem.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RichardP1 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Hi All.

I am one of a strange breed. I am a UK resident that volunteered for the "board in waiting" job in our HOA. I own a short term rental property in Florida but do not want to be one of the "sit back and let everyone else do it" owners.

As part of my role in respect of our "advisory committee" I am looking into scoping out a security contract.

Not being in the US and not being totally conversant with US contract specifications, I wondered if I could be cheeky and ask if anyone has a "sample contract" and "specification".

We are looking for 24x7x365 cover and using 1 guard + a vehicle.

Thanks in anticipation of any help or advice.

Best regards to you all

Richard Prior
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
What state are you in?? You have to be careful about the word "security". Some states require licensing and yearly "training" to be called security.
RichardP1 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Hi Jan.

We are in Florida and experiencing an increasing number of break ins etc. This is causing concern to "absent" owners and, our management company.

The security we are looking to provide is a mixture of foot / vehicle patrols, ad-hoc checks of vehicles at entry points, signs and a small number of "overview" CCTV cameras.

I am aware of the difficulties surrounding cameras and privacy hence the fact that we will only be looking at having them at entry points, street junctions and parking lots.

Your points about licensing and training are great as this will now let me go away and see whether FL places such requirements.

Thanks for you help and advice.

Best regards

Richard
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posted:
My .02 cents....

In regards to community watch....

The neighborhood watch committee’s primary responsibility should be to research what it feels are the most effective ways to accomplish the goals of the community watch and make recommendations to the Board of Directors and carry out Board sanctioned tasks and/or activities.

The Board’s primary responsibility is to facilitate the effective deployment of a community watch program based on the information gathered from the watch committee, information it collects from its membership and information the board acquires itself.

Having said that....

I believe the primary goal of a watch program is to serve as a deterrent to would be thieves or criminals. The best way to accomplish a deterrent effect is to openly advertise the community watch program. Signs at the entrance and signs carefully placed thought the neighborhood may help accomplish this goal.
If the program fails to make everyone aware of a watch program then program looses it’s potential to act as an effective deterrent.

The secondary goal of a watch program is observation. The community should be made aware of specific security issues and should be told how best to assist local law enforcement in the event that someone observes unusual or suspicious activity.

I didn't read all the replies so if some/all of what I said was already posted...well you get it.
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Chris - I'm sure that you'll get some replies to your recent post. I'm not sure everyone is going to line up behind you on this.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By RichardP1 on 02/07/2007 12:44 AM

Hi Jan.

We are in Florida and experiencing an increasing number of break ins etc. This is causing concern to "absent" owners and, our management company.

The security we are looking to provide is a mixture of foot / vehicle patrols, ad-hoc checks of vehicles at entry points, signs and a small number of "overview" CCTV cameras.

I am aware of the difficulties surrounding cameras and privacy hence the fact that we will only be looking at having them at entry points, street junctions and parking lots.

Your points about licensing and training are great as this will now let me go away and see whether FL places such requirements.

Thanks for you help and advice.

Best regards

Richard


I would think that your management company, being local, would be in the best position to provide options for security services.


Ron
SC
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
A little testimony about the benefits of Neighborhood Watch...

Over Christmas we had a rash of vandalism where several yard displays were damaged. After a few posts about it on our neighborhood email list server, one of our owner's kids mentioned that she had overheard a couple of schoolmates laughing about it. The owner let us know about this, we turned the information over to the police, and those kids aren't laughing anymore.

The signs can be a deterrent, but in my opinion, having a means of communication about problems can go even further.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
To go back to the original post, associations have been held liable in some cases where a security risk was known and they failed to take any action. It is the responsibility of the board to take some action if they are made aware of crimes or other security problems. For example, if there were a number of car break-ins, then they should make the owners aware of the problem, and begin considering possible areas to reduce the risk, i.e. increased lighting, more frequent police drive-bys, etc. If they decide that increased lighting is the best potential deterrent, then they could take it to the owners for a vote (capital improvement). If voted down, they will have at least mitigated the potential liability.

Keep the owners filled in.
Look to see if its a problem that could be repeated.
Look to see if there's something the association can do to help.
Dont' promise security (in fact, make sure you have disclaimers about anything even remotely considered to provide security, i.e. gate)
See if the owners really want do something.

Basically, if the board is aware of a problem, it has a "Duty to Act", it can't just wish it would go away. To what degree you act, is up to you and the owners.

Joe

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