AlvinD (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
In the state of Florida, can 2 members of a household (both owners on the lease) serve on the Board of Directors?
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More than one household member on a board
Started by AlvinD • 37 replies • 4648 views
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GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
AlvinD,
How many votes can each household cast? If one, then the answer is only 1 member of a household can be on the Board of Directors.
GeraldT1
NNJ
How many votes can each household cast? If one, then the answer is only 1 member of a household can be on the Board of Directors.
GeraldT1
NNJ
AlvinD (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
The state just told me that if the bylaws do not state how many can serve, then it is ok for 2 members to serve on a board.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Our bylaws state each lot gets one vote, but anyone named on a dead is a member. We have had two people from the same residence before on the board.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
that should read "deed" above, it is Monday though.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
in our HOA, any owner can be elected, and thus, you can have two (or more) members of a single home on the board, if all of them are listed on the deed as an owner. Each LOT get's only one "member/owner" vote, but all owners of the lot are eligible to be elected.
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
Alvin, Brad, and Brian,
If each household has one vote per household, allowing two, or more owners per household on the Board to vote defies the one vote rule.
GeraldT1
NNJ
If each household has one vote per household, allowing two, or more owners per household on the Board to vote defies the one vote rule.
GeraldT1
NNJ
JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412
Posts: 412
Posted:
Our documents specificially state that an owner, or spouse of an owner, can serve on the board. Only one person from a household can serve on the board.
We have another situation that we may have an issue with. In my effort to recruit new board members for the February election, one of those volunteers is a 'domestic partner' not listed as an owner of the home. Since the documents specifically state 'spouse' which means being married and the State of Georgia does not recognize same sex 'marriage' (and in fact is illegal) we may have an issue. Our attorney advised us to proceed with the election and should this person become a board member and it becomes an issue, he may have to resign. We need to re-write our by-laws (by a vote of the association)to have this changed.
Should I be re-elected this year, the plan is to change from an HOA to a POA in which the covenants will need to be re-written or amended. We will also re-write the by-laws to allow for domestic partner so that we will be up-to-date with modern times.
We have another situation that we may have an issue with. In my effort to recruit new board members for the February election, one of those volunteers is a 'domestic partner' not listed as an owner of the home. Since the documents specifically state 'spouse' which means being married and the State of Georgia does not recognize same sex 'marriage' (and in fact is illegal) we may have an issue. Our attorney advised us to proceed with the election and should this person become a board member and it becomes an issue, he may have to resign. We need to re-write our by-laws (by a vote of the association)to have this changed.
Should I be re-elected this year, the plan is to change from an HOA to a POA in which the covenants will need to be re-written or amended. We will also re-write the by-laws to allow for domestic partner so that we will be up-to-date with modern times.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By GeraldT1 on 01/30/2007 5:34 AM
Alvin, Brad, and Brian,
If each household has one vote per household, allowing two, or more owners per household on the Board to vote defies the one vote rule.
GeraldT1
NNJ
Alvin, Brad, and Brian,
If each household has one vote per household, allowing two, or more owners per household on the Board to vote defies the one vote rule.
GeraldT1
NNJ
Each lot owner (it doesn't have to be household, we have a lot owned by a LLC) gets one vote as a "member" in general elections and such. Each elected board member gets one vote in board matters. Unless it's prohibited by the CC&Rs or bylaws, multiple members of a single family could be elected to the BOD and each have voting powers. In our case, directors need not be members of the association.
You wouldn't think the membership would vote more than one family member into office, but they might.
Ron
SC
SC
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
thanks Ron. you explained it well.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Ron:
good job on explaining. Like you our board members don't have to be members of our association. We have yet to change that rule.
good job on explaining. Like you our board members don't have to be members of our association. We have yet to change that rule.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posts: 901
Posted:
Thanks guys.
Ron
SC
SC
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
My by-laws prohibit multiple members of a single family to be elected to the BOD.
Be that as it may, the logic of what I am stating is not specific to what your by-laws allow.
Be that as it may, the logic of what I am stating is not specific to what your by-laws allow.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
gerald, how does your logic prevent spouses from being on the board together?
Tom, Mary, Jack, and Andrea are nominated for the board. Each of them is an owner in good standing, as recorded on the deeds filed in the county. there are 20 votes (owners) available to be cast, in person or by proxy. We will be electing three nominees tonight.
10 votes go to Mary.
5 votes go to Tom
2 votes go to Jack
3 votes go to Andrea
So, Mary, Tom and Andrea are elected. How is the result different if Mary and Tom are married?
Tom, Mary, Jack, and Andrea are nominated for the board. Each of them is an owner in good standing, as recorded on the deeds filed in the county. there are 20 votes (owners) available to be cast, in person or by proxy. We will be electing three nominees tonight.
10 votes go to Mary.
5 votes go to Tom
2 votes go to Jack
3 votes go to Andrea
So, Mary, Tom and Andrea are elected. How is the result different if Mary and Tom are married?
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
BrianB,
My by-laws state each Unit present in person or by proxy shall be entitled to one vote for each Unit to which he holds title. When more than one person holds title, the vote for each Unit shall be excersised as the co-owner Members among themselves determine. When on or more co-Owner Members signs a proxy or purports to vote for his or her co-Owner Members, such vote shall be counted unless one or more of the other co-Owner Members is present and objects to such vote; or submits a proxy or objects in writing delivered to the Secreatary of the Association before the vote is counted.
In my community each Unit gets one vote, regardless as to what they are voting on and in what capacity they vote.
Logic dictates this, because in your scenario from previous posts, and from what I see from others who've posted to this topic, a community that has 100 owners could have all owners running for the Board. Is that logical?
GeraldT1
NNJ
My by-laws state each Unit present in person or by proxy shall be entitled to one vote for each Unit to which he holds title. When more than one person holds title, the vote for each Unit shall be excersised as the co-owner Members among themselves determine. When on or more co-Owner Members signs a proxy or purports to vote for his or her co-Owner Members, such vote shall be counted unless one or more of the other co-Owner Members is present and objects to such vote; or submits a proxy or objects in writing delivered to the Secreatary of the Association before the vote is counted.
In my community each Unit gets one vote, regardless as to what they are voting on and in what capacity they vote.
Logic dictates this, because in your scenario from previous posts, and from what I see from others who've posted to this topic, a community that has 100 owners could have all owners running for the Board. Is that logical?
GeraldT1
NNJ
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
i agree. each unit has one vote, in my HOA and in most i know of. That has nothing to do with how many people a given unit can nominate to be elected... In my preceding example, if Mary and Tom are married, they cast ONE vote... and they can cast if for Mary, Tom, Andrea, or Jack, whichever person they want. the other 19 owners also get one vote, and cast it for whomever they wish.
and yes, a community with 100 owners could have any number of owners run for election.. zero, one, three, fourty five, one hundred and ten, six hundred (if each unit had 6 or so adults listed on the deed as owners). No matter how many nominees there are, there will still be only 100 votes, but nothing says that the votes can't be cast for married couples, etc..
If you have a by-law that states only one person per unit/ownership can be nominated for a position, then you follow that. If you are like me, then all you have is something that says "any owner may be nominated". And, if any owner can be nominated, then any owner may cast their vote for any owner... to do otherwise would be election interference.
and yes, a community with 100 owners could have any number of owners run for election.. zero, one, three, fourty five, one hundred and ten, six hundred (if each unit had 6 or so adults listed on the deed as owners). No matter how many nominees there are, there will still be only 100 votes, but nothing says that the votes can't be cast for married couples, etc..
If you have a by-law that states only one person per unit/ownership can be nominated for a position, then you follow that. If you are like me, then all you have is something that says "any owner may be nominated". And, if any owner can be nominated, then any owner may cast their vote for any owner... to do otherwise would be election interference.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Gerald:
I agree, my HOA is the same, each Unit is entitled to one vote only. In a previous post you said that your bylaws prohibit more than one member of a residence from being on the board. However, in your last post if that is the specific wording then I see nothing that would prevent more than one unit member from being on a board.
As someone said before votes of the members and votes of the board are totally different. Think of it this way, our bylaws allow non-owners to be elected to the board. However, each Unit is only allowed one vote, so therefore aren't non-owners on your board not entitled to vote on board matters?
In my opinion unless you have a specific bylaw allowing only one member of a unit to be on the board I think you are misinterpreting the bylaws. But, interpretation differs from person to person and I respect your opinion.
I agree, my HOA is the same, each Unit is entitled to one vote only. In a previous post you said that your bylaws prohibit more than one member of a residence from being on the board. However, in your last post if that is the specific wording then I see nothing that would prevent more than one unit member from being on a board.
As someone said before votes of the members and votes of the board are totally different. Think of it this way, our bylaws allow non-owners to be elected to the board. However, each Unit is only allowed one vote, so therefore aren't non-owners on your board not entitled to vote on board matters?
In my opinion unless you have a specific bylaw allowing only one member of a unit to be on the board I think you are misinterpreting the bylaws. But, interpretation differs from person to person and I respect your opinion.
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
BradP,
If only one unit is allowed one vote, than two co-Owners on the Board defies the one-vote rule. Because one unit would then be allowed two votes on one subject.
My by-laws do prevent co-Owners from both being on the Board.
GeraldT1
NNJ
If only one unit is allowed one vote, than two co-Owners on the Board defies the one-vote rule. Because one unit would then be allowed two votes on one subject.
My by-laws do prevent co-Owners from both being on the Board.
GeraldT1
NNJ
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Gerald:
You have it easy, you don't have to interpret. With what you are saying how do you explain associations that have bylaws allowing non-members to be on the board. Lets say for some strange reason the whole board was made up of non-members, would they be allowed to vote on board issues or would it be a useless board?
You have it easy, you don't have to interpret. With what you are saying how do you explain associations that have bylaws allowing non-members to be on the board. Lets say for some strange reason the whole board was made up of non-members, would they be allowed to vote on board issues or would it be a useless board?
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By BradP on 01/31/2007 5:51 AM
...... Lets say for some strange reason the whole board was made up of non-members, would they be allowed to vote on board issues or would it be a useless board?
...... Lets say for some strange reason the whole board was made up of non-members, would they be allowed to vote on board issues or would it be a useless board?
They would have the same rights and responsibilities as if they were members.
In practice, this is very unlikely to happen.
Ron
SC
SC
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Ron:
True, but the same would should apply to a husband and wife on the board together.
True, but the same would should apply to a husband and wife on the board together.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posts: 901
Posted:
The board members are elected by the HOA membership (in our case "lot owners"). Board members need not be HOA members and there are no restrictions on members of the same family or household being elected to the board.
In our HOA, there are a couple instances where the parents own one property and one or more of their grown children or other relatives own other properties.
I can see where there could be a problem with board members being husband and wife or parent and child but on the other hand, shouldn't they all be allowed to run for office? Otherwise, who could say which family member was allowed to run? The oldest? The "male" ? See where I'm going with this? I can't think of any elected government offices with restrictions on family members being elected. In theory, Hillary could select Bill as her running mate!
In the end, it's the membership who selects the officers, we have to hope they pick the best candidates.
In our HOA, there are a couple instances where the parents own one property and one or more of their grown children or other relatives own other properties.
I can see where there could be a problem with board members being husband and wife or parent and child but on the other hand, shouldn't they all be allowed to run for office? Otherwise, who could say which family member was allowed to run? The oldest? The "male" ? See where I'm going with this? I can't think of any elected government offices with restrictions on family members being elected. In theory, Hillary could select Bill as her running mate!
In the end, it's the membership who selects the officers, we have to hope they pick the best candidates.
Ron
SC
SC
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posts: 519
Posted:
Permitting co-Owners to both get elected to a BOD is a nice way to double the power of their vote, despite paying dues only once. To me, it defies logic, concentrates power, and could involve the association in disputes amongst family members. God help everyone if there's a divorce!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
GeraldT1
NNJ
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
i agree with your last post gerald, except the defies logic part. It makes sense to me, and many others.
are there risks to the policy? absolutely. you list several risks, quite rightly.
But electing two owners from the same household is legal in many HOA's, and doesn't violate any "one vote per lot" rule, because that rule exists (in those HOA's) for annual meetings and voting on the board nominees. Once elected, each officer gets their one vote, and casts it... and owners don't get to vote on every issue, because they elected these folks to vote for them.
Think of it this way: Years ago, Kansas could have elected both Robert and Elizabeth Dole to the senate (both were popular, and likely would have won). Kansas voters would have cast their ballots (ie, had their one vote), and if they had chosen to, sent hubby/wife to the senate, where each would have one vote to cast on important things, like pay raises, etc..
are there risks to the policy? absolutely. you list several risks, quite rightly.
But electing two owners from the same household is legal in many HOA's, and doesn't violate any "one vote per lot" rule, because that rule exists (in those HOA's) for annual meetings and voting on the board nominees. Once elected, each officer gets their one vote, and casts it... and owners don't get to vote on every issue, because they elected these folks to vote for them.
Think of it this way: Years ago, Kansas could have elected both Robert and Elizabeth Dole to the senate (both were popular, and likely would have won). Kansas voters would have cast their ballots (ie, had their one vote), and if they had chosen to, sent hubby/wife to the senate, where each would have one vote to cast on important things, like pay raises, etc..
MartyD (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two seperate issues.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MartyD on 03/22/2007 8:05 AM
What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two seperate issues.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two seperate issues.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
Apparently, I missed this tread. Many of you have read in previous posts I had written. At that particular time, my wife was interesting in being on the board with me. We later were advised (with your advice) that it would be best for only one of us to “run” for position.
I did read in our governing documents. Your name must be on the deed. You must reside within the community and you must be a member in good standings. But that is all.
From all I have read from the previous posts on this subject. I can agree with some of you.
Many governing documents say that only one vote per household (including mine), which tells me if both were elected to seat on the board. When a suggestion was “tabled” at a board meeting, then both couldn’t vote, but that’s just my opinion!
Chances are your believes are going to be very similar,(if not identical)to those of your spouse, so I feel you would be trying to “work” the system! By both being board members.
Good post for all us “newbies”
Chuck W.
Charles E. Wafer Jr.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesW1 on 03/22/2007 8:43 AM
Posted By MartyD on 03/22/2007 8:05 AM
What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two seperate issues.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two seperate issues.
You can have 2 volunteer board members from the same household. Each would have a vote for board items ..... only one vote could be cast if it is a membership (household) vote...one vote per household rule.
Apparently, I missed this tread. Many of you have read in previous posts I had written. At that particular time, my wife was interesting in being on the board with me. We later were advised (with your advice) that it would be best for only one of us to “run” for position.
I did read in our governing documents. Your name must be on the deed. You must reside within the community and you must be a member in good standings. But that is all.
From all I have read from the previous posts on this subject. I can agree with some of you.
Many governing documents say that only one vote per household (including mine), which tells me if both were elected to seat on the board. When a suggestion was “tabled” at a board meeting, then both couldn’t vote, but that’s just my opinion!
Chances are your believes are going to be very similar,(if not identical)to those of your spouse, so I feel you would be trying to “work” the system! By both being board members.
Good post for all us “newbies”
Chuck W.
Correction, either COULD vote! On any particular issue individually, but only one vote could be submitted from the house hold. ( one per house hold rule).
OOPS sorry!
Chuck W.
Charles E. Wafer Jr.
MartyD (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Say your wife was Vice President and you were a director and a vote came before the board to raise the annual assessment 5% which the board is allowed to do annually according to the By Laws. Both of you could vote as members of the board.
If the board is asking the membership to vote on a Covenant change and the vote is put to the membership...then and then only you and your wife would only have one household vote. (hopefully you both see eye to eye)
If the board is asking the membership to vote on a Covenant change and the vote is put to the membership...then and then only you and your wife would only have one household vote. (hopefully you both see eye to eye)
JeanI (Louisiana)
Posts: 112
Posts: 112
Posted:
It is my understanding that the one vote per household applies only to those issues which the membership has a right to vote on such as election of board members, etc. However it does not pertain to Board of Directors voting on issues reserved exclusively to the Board. The membership does not vote on matters that come before the board, otherwise why have a board?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thread is over 10 years old.
NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posts: 254
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 01/30/2007 7:09 AM
Ron:
good job on explaining. Like you our board members don't have to be members of our association. We have yet to change that rule.
Ron:
good job on explaining. Like you our board members don't have to be members of our association. We have yet to change that rule.
We recently changed our Bylaws to only allow an individual who is on the deed to be a director. Previously there was no such requirement on the original Bylaws because the developer had control and didn't live in the community. It makes sense to only allow those who actually are affected by decisions made by the board of an HOA to be on the board.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
10 year old thread
It's best not to reactivate old threads.
It's best not to reactivate old threads.
JeanI (Louisiana)
Posts: 112
Posts: 112
Posted:
Then vote per household rule in bylaws pertains to those issues which the membership can vote on, e.g.. election of directors This rule pertains to voting at membership yearly meetings and not to Board members. Every member on the board is entitled to one vote each on those issues pertaining to board matters and which require board votes.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Our documents have nothing preventing two members from the same household from being on the deed. Long story short-it got to be a nightmare. I was at one time one of only three people on the Board with the other two being the husband-wife team. I could fight them on some items (like getting a printer so PM could use our printer) The President (wife of other board member) thought this would save us money. How it would save any money is beyond me. We would have had to buy the printer, paper, and toner and pay for any needed repairs. Other things I tried to fight them on without success.
Even if your documents allow this (and I don't think FL does allow it unless there is not other alternative.) In my opinion it is not a good idea.
Even if your documents allow this (and I don't think FL does allow it unless there is not other alternative.) In my opinion it is not a good idea.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Personally I would like more than one household member on the BOD. Yes some docs allow it, but it is something I am against.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Speaking of divorce. We had one divorcing couple (both on the deed) show up at our Annual Meeting and each claimed to right to vote for the property. Our attorney told them one vote per household so they should step outside and decide who will vote. They went outside and never returned.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/30/2017 2:24 PM
Speaking of divorce. We had one divorcing couple (both on the deed) show up at our Annual Meeting and each claimed to right to vote for the property. Our attorney told them one vote per household so they should step outside and decide who will vote. They went outside and never returned.
Speaking of divorce. We had one divorcing couple (both on the deed) show up at our Annual Meeting and each claimed to right to vote for the property. Our attorney told them one vote per household so they should step outside and decide who will vote. They went outside and never returned.
They probably didn't make up either!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/30/2017 2:20 PM
Personally I would like more than one household member on the BOD. Yes some docs allow it, but it is something I am against.
Personally I would like more than one household member on the BOD. Yes some docs allow it, but it is something I am against.
OOPS I meant to say personally I do not like more than one household member on the BOD
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