EdwardL2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posts: 15
Posted:
When a letter is sent to a homeowner do we have to name the the section of the docs that mentions the violation?
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Friendly letters
Started by EdwardL2 • 13 replies • 6021 views
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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
It certainly seems like a reasonable thing to do.
Imagine receiving a ticket without citing why you were receiving it. You would wonder what is going on. By citing the section of the governing documents that is being violated, the member may gain an understanding into what they must comply with.
Are you the one sending the notice or receiving the notice?
Imagine receiving a ticket without citing why you were receiving it. You would wonder what is going on. By citing the section of the governing documents that is being violated, the member may gain an understanding into what they must comply with.
Are you the one sending the notice or receiving the notice?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Our property mgr. always cites the relevant doc and specific rule that has been violated. Not only, as Tim wrote, does this inform the HO about what the specific violation is, this "courtesy letter" also becomes part of the paper trail if we must call the alleged violator to a hearing.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
My advice would be an informational letter citing the violation and asking it be corrected within a period of time. Often being polite and friendly will cure the situation and should be ones first course of action.
If necessary then send a 2nd polite but firmer letter with a dead line dte that if the situation is not corrected by, that fines in the amount of whatever will commence.
My suggestion might take 30 to 60 days, but I believe it is effective and reduces animosity.
My first HOA violation was a garden flag. I did not know they were not allowed. A polite letter informing me that only American flags were allowed was all it took for me to remove the flag.
Easy peezy.
If necessary then send a 2nd polite but firmer letter with a dead line dte that if the situation is not corrected by, that fines in the amount of whatever will commence.
My suggestion might take 30 to 60 days, but I believe it is effective and reduces animosity.
My first HOA violation was a garden flag. I did not know they were not allowed. A polite letter informing me that only American flags were allowed was all it took for me to remove the flag.
Easy peezy.
DorieW1 (Tennessee)
Posts: 39
Posts: 39
Posted:
Just please do not make the mistake that my HOA's MC has made several times when the letter is written.
My HOA's MC would make an allegation and then attempt to support it with an article# in the ByLaws that does not exist and then would misinterpret the ByLaw they cited followed by a demand for $100.00 (a majical number).
This demand was an effort to zero in on the parking of a commercial vehicle which was not prohibited in our CC&R's. The ByLaw article utilized to support this demand stated, "The Board of Directors shall have the powers and duties necessary to adopt an dpublish rules and regulations governing the use of the common area, facilities, the personal conduct of the members and their guests thereon and to establish penalites for the infraction thereof." This vehicle must be removed from the property, and if returned to the property (MY PROPERTY), your account will be fined $100.00.
The front of my house and the driveway of my house is not a common area, or a facility, or a guest. My subdivision has no common areas or facilities nor will it ever as the annual dues/HOA are supposed to be for the purpose of yard care.
This letter did not go over very well and I would learn that the intention behind this letter had to do with an emotional preference of one of the appointed board members in her 80's and would have absolutely nothing to do with the actual CC&R's which was mind numbing.
To add insult to injury, a BFF (Best Friend Forever) of this same appointed board member, decided that her visiting family would be allowed to park their camper in her driveway for a period of sixteen weeks.
Our CC&R's EXPLICITLY state that NO CAMPERS are to be parked in our driveways AT ANYTIME!!!
If I truly desired to be the neighbor from hell, I could have taken that specific neighbor to court as stated by our CC&R's for her willful violation of our CC&R's regardless of her excuse but I just remained quiet about it and took pictures and documented the selective enforcement that was going on in my neighborhood.
I would learn that this sort of letter for $100.00 would be circulated throughout my neighborhood for matters that were not actual violations of our CC&R's but rather a way for the MC and HOA to generate revenue.
I share this information with the purpose of giving a real life account of a letter gone wrong from the get go and how it taught me that the MC thought they could bully me into handing over $100.00 and that the HOA appointed board of directors was not upholding its fiduciary duty in this specific instance.
Think it through and have a policy in place so that selective enforcement does not occur in your subdivision.
My HOA's MC would make an allegation and then attempt to support it with an article# in the ByLaws that does not exist and then would misinterpret the ByLaw they cited followed by a demand for $100.00 (a majical number).
This demand was an effort to zero in on the parking of a commercial vehicle which was not prohibited in our CC&R's. The ByLaw article utilized to support this demand stated, "The Board of Directors shall have the powers and duties necessary to adopt an dpublish rules and regulations governing the use of the common area, facilities, the personal conduct of the members and their guests thereon and to establish penalites for the infraction thereof." This vehicle must be removed from the property, and if returned to the property (MY PROPERTY), your account will be fined $100.00.
The front of my house and the driveway of my house is not a common area, or a facility, or a guest. My subdivision has no common areas or facilities nor will it ever as the annual dues/HOA are supposed to be for the purpose of yard care.
This letter did not go over very well and I would learn that the intention behind this letter had to do with an emotional preference of one of the appointed board members in her 80's and would have absolutely nothing to do with the actual CC&R's which was mind numbing.
To add insult to injury, a BFF (Best Friend Forever) of this same appointed board member, decided that her visiting family would be allowed to park their camper in her driveway for a period of sixteen weeks.
Our CC&R's EXPLICITLY state that NO CAMPERS are to be parked in our driveways AT ANYTIME!!!
If I truly desired to be the neighbor from hell, I could have taken that specific neighbor to court as stated by our CC&R's for her willful violation of our CC&R's regardless of her excuse but I just remained quiet about it and took pictures and documented the selective enforcement that was going on in my neighborhood.
I would learn that this sort of letter for $100.00 would be circulated throughout my neighborhood for matters that were not actual violations of our CC&R's but rather a way for the MC and HOA to generate revenue.
I share this information with the purpose of giving a real life account of a letter gone wrong from the get go and how it taught me that the MC thought they could bully me into handing over $100.00 and that the HOA appointed board of directors was not upholding its fiduciary duty in this specific instance.
Think it through and have a policy in place so that selective enforcement does not occur in your subdivision.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdwardL2 on 04/15/2012 7:20 PM
When a letter is sent to a homeowner do we have to name the the section of the docs that mentions the violation?
When a letter is sent to a homeowner do we have to name the the section of the docs that mentions the violation?
Edward,
We used to include the article and section number, along with a quote from the documents, in any letter we sent out. In some cases, this infuriated the homeowner and made it difficult to discuss a remedy. Some people are intimidated by legal terms, and they react badly.
Now, our first letter, for covenant violations or late payments, always is very friendly and discusses the problem in colloquial terms. If we need to follow up, then we start citing chapter and verse.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Wow, Dorie, here in Calif., owners cannot be fined except by the Board at a meeting (called a hearing) to which the alleged violator is invited. The hearing letter/invitation must go the the Owners at least 15 days before the meeting. Are you certain that TN statutes permit the kind of fines that you discuss?
For most of our rules, the Owners isn't called to hearing until the 2nd alleged violation of the same rule. The first letter summarizes the rule in simple, friendly language. But it also cites the document, p# and rule number so that the alleged violators can read the exact wording.
For most of our rules, the Owners isn't called to hearing until the 2nd alleged violation of the same rule. The first letter summarizes the rule in simple, friendly language. But it also cites the document, p# and rule number so that the alleged violators can read the exact wording.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Make sure your HOA has a fining schedule and it's written in your docs. Your HOA can't erroneously assign a fine without having it agreed upon and made aware by the members. A HOA does have the right to fine but they typically lack the setup of fine schedules. Plus, foreclosures or liens can NOT be based on fines in many or most states. Only unpaid dues/special assessments/special repair/corrective action situations.
So be careful when deciding to send out these corrective letters if your HOA does not have the proper setup in place for fining. It is a falacy many HOA's suffer from but can be resolved if right steps taken.
So be careful when deciding to send out these corrective letters if your HOA does not have the proper setup in place for fining. It is a falacy many HOA's suffer from but can be resolved if right steps taken.
Former HOA President
DorieW1 (Tennessee)
Posts: 39
Posts: 39
Posted:
This bogus violation crafted through the intentional misinterpretation of our governing documents was in no way legal and this group of appointed board members along with this property managment company thought they could pull it off as a means of generating additional revenue from members through an extortion related type of attempt.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Dorie,
I agree that your board addressed the issue improperly and cited the improper section of your governing documents. I also agree, based on your posts, that it appears they chose to selectively enforce some covenants (your posting about the trailer).
Citing the section they did, didn't give the board the authority to complain about commercial vehicles. If the board wanted to address commercial trucks, I would have recommended that they cite the aesthetic section and/or nuisance section as this would have been more appropriate.
Per your posts on other threads, your issue has escalated into the court system. If this is one of the issues being discussed in the courts, I wanted to make you aware of a possible response by your Board - that the aesthetic or nuisance section may provide the authority and a simple mistake was made citing the wrong section.
Tim
I agree that your board addressed the issue improperly and cited the improper section of your governing documents. I also agree, based on your posts, that it appears they chose to selectively enforce some covenants (your posting about the trailer).
Citing the section they did, didn't give the board the authority to complain about commercial vehicles. If the board wanted to address commercial trucks, I would have recommended that they cite the aesthetic section and/or nuisance section as this would have been more appropriate.
Per your posts on other threads, your issue has escalated into the court system. If this is one of the issues being discussed in the courts, I wanted to make you aware of a possible response by your Board - that the aesthetic or nuisance section may provide the authority and a simple mistake was made citing the wrong section.
Tim
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posts: 503
Posted:
Having been the recipient of several unfriendly letters/emails, I can say, friendly professioal letters are preferred and should reference the code/bylaws violated. People should remember that a common interest development is a non-profit business entity (at least in California).
We've been threatened several times with fines, but for things that were not against any codes or bylaws. We even had the board of directors say they are going to make a rule. My response: Tell us when you do and we'll be glad to comply.
Our board used decorative authority to threaten us with a fine when we posted something on the community bulletin board...even if we're just asking: "When's the next board meeting?"
Do you know how stupid that looks in writing?
We've been threatened several times with fines, but for things that were not against any codes or bylaws. We even had the board of directors say they are going to make a rule. My response: Tell us when you do and we'll be glad to comply.
Our board used decorative authority to threaten us with a fine when we posted something on the community bulletin board...even if we're just asking: "When's the next board meeting?"
Do you know how stupid that looks in writing?
ToriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 10
Posts: 10
Posted:
Lawrence,
Prior to seeing this discussion, I posted a discussion forum requesting a sample letter/newsletter or other document that could assist me in drafting a letter to neighbors for lawn maintenance violations. Are you able to provide an example?
Toria
Prior to seeing this discussion, I posted a discussion forum requesting a sample letter/newsletter or other document that could assist me in drafting a letter to neighbors for lawn maintenance violations. Are you able to provide an example?
Toria
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posts: 480
Posted:
Toria,
Here is an example of our first (friendly) letter and our second (more serious) letter. We send both of them on Association letterhead that includes our mailing address and a contact e-mail address.
Please note that the specific time lines for fines to start and to request a hearing are from our governing documents, and yours may be different.
Here is an example of our first (friendly) letter and our second (more serious) letter. We send both of them on Association letterhead that includes our mailing address and a contact e-mail address.
Please note that the specific time lines for fines to start and to request a hearing are from our governing documents, and yours may be different.
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ToriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 10
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thank you, Lawrence.
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