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Posted By DorieW1 on 04/15/2012 12:40 PM
Thank you John. And thank you for your observations. Also, thank you for sharing that you have observed experiences over the past 25 years that were not successful for the indignent members of HOA's. It sheds light on your previous statements that seemed heavily focused on antagonism for the mere sport of it vs. an actual perspective based on the information as measured against your knowledge/experience.
I understand that for some, a perspective such as yours is probably based on an assumption that members who are the most outspoken are doing so because they are angry about the terms they agreed to at closing, after the fact. Which means that patience from the board members is costly, time consuming, and self serving of the member.
After reading your information up above, I can understand why you would make the conclusion you have because you are not affected by the continual circulation of decisions made without reverence for the trust and confidence required by this board to recognize first before they decide who they will descend upon next to benefit themselves and the property management company.
It is an issue of complexity considering that this group of people were not elected to do what they are doing. They appointed themselves and a property management company assisted them in accomplishing this objective. Because they were appointed by eachother perhaps that is the reason they behave without reverence for their fiduciary duty to the members of the HOA because they were not elected.
At best, these are $110,00.00 zero lot line homes with a diverse group of occupants whose income earnings at best reach the mark of median in our country.
The primary responsiblity of this HOA is for it to operate so that it can finance our yard care, which we all know increases property values.
Almost 4 years after the "take over", our yards look like they receive radiation treatment and a member must be a personal friend of one of the appointed board members in order to dodge consequences for the clear violations of our CC&R's.
From a standpoint such as yours, this observation from myself is petty without the rest of the information which includes several neighbors being descended upon by this appointed board and property managment company for matters none of us were in violation of according to the CC&R's and in some cases, money was demanded.
Attorneys have been involved. Attornies are still involved. My own financial expense has been noteworthy and I have no expectations of anyone attempting to return it to me either. I am the member who has acquired state level and local HOA documents along with recording three HOA meetings in 2011 (the first of which I was openly chastised for doing by the property managment company president and the 20 year old daughter being groomed to run the small business) and upon permission from one of my neighbors, acquired a recording of a conversation he had via phone with the president of the property managment company correcting him on how our CC&R's read that the homeowners are supposed to take over the association and take over the community when in fact the CC&R's state that the developer after 90% completion turns the association over to a managing committee consisting of five lotowners who are appointed by the developer until such time as their sucessers are elected by a majority vote.
Documentation from the HOA clearly states that a small handfull of homeowners appointed themselves on July 27,2008 with the documented coordination of the property managment companies help, while state records reflect that our board and agent were not involved in this meeting held for a few to appoint eachother into positions, nor were the rest of the members.
The legally recognize agent filed a renewal for our charter 5 days after this appointment. The legally recognized agent never submitted a notice of resignation to the state as it is not part of our file. I know this personally because I purchased a copy of our entire file from the state in the fall of last year.
Given what you illude to understanding about the authority of a board and the annoyances of rediculous members, I doubt you would agree that the above mentioned is anything worth dismissing casually, especially if many have been impacted in a damaging way and if our yards appear to recieve radiation treatment at best.
If you can give me some pointers on how to better communicate what is wrong here then I am open to it as I agree that a difference of opinion is an opportunity to learn and refine our own perspectives I would appreciate it. However, if you feel you must continue with antagonism for the mere sport of it, I would request that you do not do that.
If I wanted to engage in a dirt slinging contest with you I would banter with you about your need to share just how unproductive the facebook effort is but I am not interested in that along with ensuring that you are aware of the fact that your need to be antagonistic will be met with no response wich in no way means I lack strength or ability to tolerate it but that It's a waste of my time.
In June of 2011, I began to knock on doors to see what the response was on the annual dues we are paying each year. out of 90 homes, I made person to person contact with approximately 45 owners and 30 signed a preliminary sort of petition in support of reducing our annual dues by one third which was met with a smug dismissal when presented in order to the appointed board and property managment company at the first meeting I knew about being held at the end of June in 2011. The reson for this effort was because I could see that many were being harrassed by the property managment company for matters that were not actual violations and we were paying for this out of our HOA dues when the focus of the funds in the CC&R's were about operations and yard care.
I was seeing evidence of abuse. Regardless of your personal disapproval of my efforts, I doubt you would disagree that anyone who is concerned about the abuse of people should be able to assert themselves without fear of retaliation. That is exactly why this page is looked into mostly as opposed to participated in as there is a fear of retaliation and a small few are benefiting at the expense of the members for this continued effort.
I have lived here for ten years and not until the beginning of last year has there ever been a problem for me.
Dorie:
You view any opinion other than your own as some sort of attack. Perhaps you might consider others have gone through what you have described. I joined my Board in 1987. It was full of "old boy" idiots who believed their only goal was to keep CCs as low as possible and allow the MC to handle everything else while overpaying him for his efforts. I never felt the need to set up a Facebook page to get some sense of revenge. I took the time to learn the documents, the laws and who was doing what and why. Now understanding the effort you have made and the results you have gotten just let me run through what it took me to clean things up.
I too visited every unit owner. After 14 YEARS ( yes that was years!) of working behind the scenes to get people to support my efforts an election was held. After more than 20 years the President, VP and Treasurer were voted OUT!
The MC was then terminated hence his lawsuit. He lost.
In 2003 I was voted in as President of the Board. Over those 9 years at a time when our economy is in the worst shape ever our assets have grown 10X. Now if you can find a financial advisor who can get you a 10 fold investment return in 9 years I would suggest you hire them.
If you read my last post I stated I "DID NOT" known whether you had a reasonable argument or not. It is lost in the details you provided.
Whether documents were filed with the state or county and when is of little importance to me. I would have to fix what's wrong with the leadership fisrt and foremost and then repair or update the things that were overlooked or mishandled.
Not sure how a group of people just shows up one day and declares they are the Board and the Board that was in place??? They just walked away?
Or how did that go down???? And the owners well they just started sending their CCs into the new self appointed Board???? Is that how it went???
And the owners that are victims of unreasonable fines and violations
they just turn the other cheek and have done nothing?
Here's what I have learned over 25 YEARS. While many such as yourself find fault or appoint blame to the Board and MC that misses the true mark. Any HOA is only as good as the OWNERS who operate under it. If the OWNERS sit back and do nothing then they deserve what they get. And believe me in many situations they will get the very worst. I have seen it.
Here's your problem. You have a Facebook page that shows TWO (2) names posting. Your suggestion every other property owner lives in fear of retaliation and is willing to do nothing well then time to pack it up and move. Without the support of the property owners you have little if any chance. And IF you did win and this group was removed you then are willing to be a one woman show till the end of time? That's the only option that works.
Now as has been suggested several times best for you to read your documents and get an accurate understanding of them. Your efforts to have a petition signed or sort of a petition or maybe a petition well my guess under your documents 30 people out of 90 can't decide to drop the CC rate by 1/3. I just wonder how did you come up wih that number. Do you have a copy of the property's budget? Do you know the property's expenses other than maintaining the lawns? Are there any? Do you have reserves? Do you have any savings? To be honest if a a group of owners walked in and submitted a petition to reduce our CCs by 30% that would be laughable. Just where have you been for the last 10 years??
I also read that you claim to have a "trustee" or someone you have picked ready and able to take over the control of the property if and when the courts rule this should take place. Now as I don't reside in Tenn. I will base this on my knowledge here in NY. Under the law no party in a lawsuit or legal action would be permitted or allowed to decide when, why, or who should be appointed to take over the control of a disputed entity. In most cases the court would appoint such a person. In many cases this person might be a lawyer, judge, or someone of equal standing or expertise. There would be quite a learning curve for someone to take over the day to day operations of the property and the kicker the PROPERTY pays for their time. Each and ever hour and their hourly rate is way above minimum wage. That cost over time will bankrupt your property. IMO.
Just wondering how this would be for the best on your property? Also suggests to me you just might be jumping the gun. If what you say is true and this group along with the MC is so evil my guess they will fight your efforts each and every step of the way. And you IMO have a long way to go.
And finally Dorie you have a talent for picking fights and insulting people. No doubt if it were my intention to pick a fight with you my personality does not lend itself to word games and debates. I come to this site to share what I have learned and seen over 25 years. But what does annoy me is when folks who have never served one day on a Board, who have no real understanding of how a Board works or their responsibilites, suddenly and magically comes to the point where they know all. Yes, at times I lack patience for folks who don't get it and never will. Every property has them but it is NOT my job to listen without end as to what they feel should be done or how things should be handled. And if you think that is a Board members job than get back to me after a few year of trying to make everyone happy. That's a Fool's game and despite your views I don't want to waste MY time.
Whether you listen to my advice or not really has no affect on my life.
Funny that some of the others who post here have offered you similar advice is it possible we are all wrong and you just know better?
I will repeat myself again, I believe your methods are wrong and will not in the end work. And what goes on in Ariz. or MD. doesn't have any direct effect on your home in Tenn. And your petition to reduce CCs accomplished what? Your Facebook page accomplished what? Coming to this site has accomplished what? Are you better able to take on the issues facing your property?
How is what you are doing now working for you???? Is it working at all.